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A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

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181–190 of 269 posts

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#181
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false, energy efficiencies do decrease energy use, in most situations. Jevon's paradox is the exception, not the rule. For example, increasing fuel efficiency of cars does decrease energy use, because fuel cost is not the limiting factor foe most car travel. Similarly, more efficient lighting, more efficient home space heating and water heating, and better weatherization of homes, all increase energy efficien…

>For example, increasing fuel efficiency of cars does decrease energy use MPG from passenger car didn't decreased since 1976 despite huge advancement in fuel efficiency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CAFE_mpg_curve_from_NHTSA...

MPG is a measure of efficiency, so it makes sense that it increases. To support your argument, you would need to demonstrate a corresponding increase in vehicle miles traveled per car, so that total gallons of fuel burned (i.e. energy) is constant or increasing.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#182
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (a) it sucks and is dangerous, (b) therefore, people who do it, or whose families have done it, feel a lot of pride about it We really need to get rid of that “proud to kill myself to make my employer richer” trait. > "We appreciate your and your family's work over the years, and here's a truckload of money and economic development for your region so that you can lay down that burden." It’s only fair.

They’re not proud because they’re killing themselves for their employer, they’re proud for killing themselves to feed their families, and perhaps because they are creating energy for others to use.

Nobody should have to choose between living a healthy life and feeding their family.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#183

For making a dent in global warming we'll need to have billions of tonnes of this "N-(2-ethoxyethyl)-3-morpholinopropan-1-amine (2-EEMPA)" stuff.. I wonder if this won't be an environmental hazard in itself. What do we do with it after it's captured its CO2? We can't just dump that stuff in the sea. I wonder if CO2 capture does not cause more problems than it solves. Even if we magically could capture CO2 as pure car…

>I think we should really reduce our energy usage instead. There is no viable future scenario in which mankind's energy usage decreases. It's a pipe dream, and ultimately a dangerous one. Energy use is fundamentally tied to progress to such an extent that we should always be looking for ways to increase the energy available to us. Of course the energy should be produced in as low-impact a manner as possible, but it's…

Basically, any scientifically/1st principles viable technology that might save us from doing extensive desperation geo-engineering deserves some investment, from a cost/benefit point of view. Otherwise, we might learn that we coined the name "Antropocene" too early.

There is no viable future scenario in which mankind's energy usage decreases. It's a pipe dream, and ultimately a dangerous one.

Agreed. There would need to be crushing totalitarian rule over everyone on Earth to prevent progress, and that wouldn't be stable long term. Otherwise, competition by competing powers will inevitably result in a Kardashev 2 civilization. Here's why:

Space solar power and fusion power are a couple of serious tech/economic inflection points. Once humanity's technology and our self-organization reach that level of capability, we are literally within striking distance of threatening any star system in our galaxy with huge destructive energies. We only need one of the two for this to be the case. Fusion is unnecessary at this point. If someone can establish large-scale industry on the Moon and the asteroids, solar power will be every bit as good as fusion in many regards. (At large enough scales, solar power is fusion power, basically.)

Modern geopolitics are dominated by the logistics of energy transport and production. It has been this way since before World War II. The logistics of fueling factories, ships, then tanks and airplanes has absolutely dominated strategic thinking since even before that time. The lengths to which the allies went to provide the fuel to run the invasion of Europe were absolute feats of engineering, planning, and intelligence/disinformation. So just think ahead a bit: what if, instead of having to fuel your military, you could instead beam power to outposts, which would use that power to synthesize fuel? The side that can do that would have huge logistical advantages, which would also be strategic advantages. (There's a compelling reason why submarines and aircraft carriers are nuclear powered.)

Going further, once we are at the level of space industry at scale, the Earth becomes just one location in a much larger context, whose available energy dwarfs the available energy on Earth by many orders of magnitude. At those levels of available energy, we could build things like Shkadov thrusters and Nicoll-Dyson beams. At that point, we'd have the hypothetical ability to move stars and build devices that could fry the biospheres off of planets in the bulk of our own galaxy.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#184

This [0] AMA from the research group answers most of the questions I am seeing here in the thread. "Technologies range from aqueous amines - the water-rich solvents that run through modern, commercially available capture units - to energy-efficient membranes that filter CO2 from flue gas emitted by power plants. Our newest solvent, EEMPA, can accomplish the task for as little as $47.10 per metric ton - bringing post-…

Trees and plants consume CO2 and produce O2. By absorbing the CO2 you make less trees. That will kill the plants. Mission accomplished. Assholes.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many billion people would need to die to make that sustainable?

This sounds like hyperbole but it’s the honest truth. Billions would die due to food shortages. Our modern farming system is incredible at its job of feeding 7 billion people.

...and yet 1/3rd of the food is thrown away/perish globally.

There is a lot of excessive waste / inefficiencies due to energy being -- relatively -- cheap.

If energy prices soar, many inefficiencies will get more attention. Like, if food becomes more expensive we would stop throwing away 1/3 of it. (And more houses would get proper insulation. And so on.)

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#186
post #120

For comparison I was looking back at the "Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches" thing. There were estimates of $10-$25 a ton for olivine rock https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20415138

I don't know why the Democrats, in particular, don't turn this into political hay: it's literally the perfect counter to the coal issue. 1. Olivine is plentiful, everywhere, including as the tailings from huge defunct coal mines; 2. All of the mining & transportation infrastructure is already in mining country; 3. Mining country is desperate for solid, dependable blue collar work; and, 4. Mining country already has e…

Coal has other externalities besides CO2.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plant lots of trees or similar, then burn them for electricity and capture the CO2 from the smoke. Compared to a lot of the other proposals out there it almost sounds plausible.

Why not just do a partial burn and reduce the remainder to charcoal? It would be much cheaper, require no chemicals, and the end product is pure carbon, which would be easier to store. You could literally dump it in a pile and deal with it later.

Making charcoal is not energy-positive and still only results in about 50% carbon capture, best case scenario. Burning it in a biomass plant with good carbon capture does better and displaces carbon-emitting generation processes at the same time. As an added bonus biomass plants are excellent 'baseload' type plants, a feature that wind, solar, etc are missing without expensive storage and complex management schemes.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#188

I don't see what is the point to try to remove CO2 from the atmosphere. I don't even understand the fuss around global warming.Why is global warming a bad thing? The plants and animals will adapt and evolve to handle the additional heat. There will be natural selection as usual. New variants of plants will evolve which can absorb more CO2. All species on earth will find a new equilibirum as they always had in the pas…

There are really two separate questions that we have to consider when talking about the climate: 1) "Do we as a species need to be able to control the composition of the atmosphere?", and 2) "What is the optimal composition of the atmosphere?". The answer to question #1 is pretty clearly "yes". We're well on our way to becoming a Kardashev type I civilization. At that planetary scale, humanity's inputs to various glo…

Question 2 cannot be answered without tying into history and politics..

Climate change trends will likely be negative for US food production and citied... but excellent to Russian food production and affect barely any Russian infrastructure.

Climate change is objectively good for Russia; devastating for Bangladesh, probably very bad for US and Europe..

So question 2 is hard for that reason too.

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#189

For making a dent in global warming we'll need to have billions of tonnes of this "N-(2-ethoxyethyl)-3-morpholinopropan-1-amine (2-EEMPA)" stuff.. I wonder if this won't be an environmental hazard in itself. What do we do with it after it's captured its CO2? We can't just dump that stuff in the sea. I wonder if CO2 capture does not cause more problems than it solves. Even if we magically could capture CO2 as pure car…

Not sure if it's the same stuff exactly or if the cost includes reprocessing but there's an amine cycle that seems to be mostly closed that's used for CO2 removal on submarines. So it's just used to separate CO2 from the rest of the output. I think that's what this sentence is talking about:

> Notably, it is projected that this solvent can operate at a regeneration heat rate of 2.0 GJ per tonne CO2 for post-combustion capture

Smarter Every Day did a video on it and atmosphere management on a submarine more generally which is pretty neat. The CO2 scrubbing is around 20 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ

Re: A CO2 capture solvent with exceptionally low total costs of capture

#190

I've been looking at the use of algae with regards to sequester img CO2 from the atmosphere. This seems to have some remarkable advantages: single molecules which make mass production easier, presumably less finicky operating procedure and way more straightforward to pump into disused oil wells. From the abstract it does seem to need CO2 being supplied to it as opposed to drawing it from the atmosphere actively. I as…

I'm interested in causing algae blooms near the equator with iron sulfide. Not for co2 capture, most of that would get released on decomposition, but for the albedo effect. It also has the failsafe that if it gets too cold the algae will die preventing a snowball earth. They did some tests for salmon production, and scaling that linearly for area covered it would be less than a $1.5 billion project. Also we get salmon.
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