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I can only think that modern front end development has failed

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Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#121
Plenty of discussion has been had around incentives and I agree with all that, but also there's another angle here: aside from dark patterns, I think the problems of terrible front-end experiences are most prevalent in the middle of the bell curve - the front-end products developed by rather mediocre skill levels and budgets. Which is usually a pejorative, but thinking of it as literally in the middle, not great but not terrible, a wide range of skill levels where people are more or less competent at their jobs. These are where I start to notice the worst effects of the median trying to adopt the technologies and practices that high skilled developers at good companies with huge budgets are able to utilize effectively, or outright make themselves, especially when there is so much churn that being "up to date" with technology is like a pipe dream to most people. These median teams inherit all the complexity, but due to budget or time pressures, etc. aren't able to overcome it effectively to produce a product with high quality, and users feel the sluggish experience and bloat that comes as a result. This pertains to more than UI of course but eventually manifests to users that way.

Something feels wrong. The median should be able to inherit the benefits of technology produced at the high end without such inheriting massive costs.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#123
post #119

I'm bothered by a lot of contemporary web development. Many things are implemented using far too much heavy JS code, and user experience suffers. I also think a lot of people drastically underestimate how much we get out of modern tools. In a followup tweet[1] and in this thread, antirez says that we haven't improved interaction in 20 years. Let's consider gmail, which is close enough to 20 years old. But at the time…

From defining the entire approach when it launched, Gmail has somehow turned into the single best argument /against/ SPAs. I dread opening it, because I know it's going to be slow to load and slow to use. I don't know how it went so wrong. Original Gmail was a revelation. Today it's sludge.

... I just loaded Gmail on an empty cache and watched the Firefox Network pane: it made 304 requests and loaded 29.65MB of stuff (9.8MB compressed) - taking 8s to get to "loaded" (on a very fast connection) and over two minutes before it stopped loading extra pieces.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#124

I'd like to add a bit more nuance. Modern frontend development provides many opportunities for failure. These failures often make their way into production. I, personally, get great results with modern FE development. My users are happy. I am happy. It's all very successful. All the defenders of modern FE development will likely chime in with the same sentiment. I also get great results with C, which arguably provide…

Can't agree more on this...

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#125
post #47

HN seems to be pretty split on this issue. I concur with the linked tweet. Using the web beyond very simple pages like HN feels like wading through garbage. Everything is slow, laggy, loads ridiculous amounts of stuff (I live in a country where traffic is very expensive at the moment, so this becomes more noticeable). Things are also flaky and need reloading whenever they get into broken states. The only way I use th…

Why would you want server side rendering? As a user it's painful if you have to wait after each click

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#126
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I read it and feel it's the same as how we perceive modern music. Everyone says music "used to be better" but that's just survival bias. Well, if the top 100 tracks from, say, 1961 to 2021 progressively get less musically diverse, with simpler chords, less harmonies, less timbral variety, lesser melodies, more repeatition, less dynamics, less genre variety, more infantile lyrics (something that has been studied and…

The articles you're linking are proven to be misrepresenting. They for example look at a really small subset of music "Million song dataset" and only analysed basic metrics that could be automatically measured. To be honest I think the linked Spanish paper and the senationalist "Science proves modern music is bad" should be retracted since the methodology is flawed. Don't take my word for it, take Tantacrul's - compo…

Really love Tantacrul's video on this. I was actually about to look for it to reply to the grandparent post when I saw your post.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#127
Modern frontend development hasn’t failed, the industry has. Frontend development is looked down on as “not real programming” or “simplistic” but it takes years to master and requires skills of both an engineer and designer. Leetcode and bootcamps will not prepare you for architecting a high performance, scalable, accessible, SEO optimized, visually appealing, usable experience.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#128
The advancement of what is possible on the FE has not given ample time for FE developers to scale accordingly. That I believe is because of lack of standardization across the WWW and the reliance on existing libraries like Babel to accommodate this gap. The variation of how code behaves underneath now changes depending on what library you use and that tends to libraries or developers overcompensating for their code to run anywhere. IMO, we need to stop inventing the new, ensure browsers behave the same across 90% of users and then start innovating again. Sure, we might have to do this every few years or so, but the gap would keep increasing and thus have longer periods of stability.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#129
post #17

In what way are current websites not usable?

A lot of websites: - reimplement browser features and do a bad job of it - are unnecessarily slow - try to stop being slow by breaking even more stuff Some examples I’ve come across within the last week: - Twitter pages randomly failing to load until the next hard refresh, probably because of service workers somehow (which are unnecessary for user experience improvement since HTTP cache exists and I don’t have notifi…

I started reading your list looking for something to argue with but I'm sadly agreeing with all your points which I encountered myself.

I didn't even realize they're reimplementing browser features and that's a really cool observation.

I think it's paramount to understand that this is not a list of bugs to fix, it's a list to convince us that we should consider Server Side Rendering more often and avoid client side navigation, history API with all its possible race conditions...

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean https://m.facebook.com - a lightweight web version.

I tried it. It's very ugly and featureless on desktop but it does load fast.

It actually used to have -more- features. I use it on my phone exclusively; once upon a time I could use messenger from within it. They removed that feature and now try to foist the Messenger app on me. So I don't use FB Messenger from my phone.
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