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I can only think that modern front end development has failed

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Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#21
I think that this branch of engineering is still in its infancy (like electrical engineering int the times of edison). I am courius how front end development will look when dust will settle, maybe in 50 years?

Maybe todays, heated disucions will be setted for good? Or something new, better will be invented?

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#22
This topic seems to come up on Hacker News every few months or so. Not saying the post is necessarily wrong there, but it's certainly something people here love discussing nonetheless.

As for why front end development may be a bit of a mess here? Well, it's really a problem that doesn't have just one cause.

On the one hand, business pressures likely have a huge impact here. Companies love analytics, tracking, ads, etc, all of which contribute greatly to the issue of slow loading, broken sites. If you include everything and the kitchen sink, then things will clash or time out or break.

There's also an issue with businesses focusing on speed and working getting done quickly rather than well. If you're given unrealistic deadlines, and the feature set is changed midway through development because some manager/sales team thought of a shiny new idea that needs implementing... well it seems like optimisation, usability, etc often end up on the cutting room floor.

And yes there's a bit of envy from developers towards Facebook/Google/Apple/whatever there too, and a need to 'test out the shiny new toys' so they can potentially get hired there in future. I suspect CV padding is definitely why SPAs are way more common than they used to be, and why simple static or server rendered sites seem nearly nonexistent now.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#24

I don't think that web is slow, unless you're running seriously underpowered computer. That's not the case for me. Web is not as fast as it could be. And that's because customer does not want to pay for fastest website in the world. It should be fast enough and then features matter. You can spend year making your website load in 0.1 second while your competitor will implement important features and his 2-second loadi…

All of that is true until it isn’t. Ask all the stock trading apps how Robinhood out-UXed them. When the out-user-experienceing happens, you pretty much will lose your entire business if you don’t undertake a paradigm shift. Stay ahead of the curve a bit.

I think it could be argued that Robinhood’s UX is a sort of feature on its own. Stock trading isn’t simple by any means, and Robinhood found a way to make it really approachable for everyone and that’s almost admirable. Everything else about their business sucks, but that one piece was truly impressive.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#25
I'd like to add a bit more nuance. Modern frontend development provides many opportunities for failure. These failures often make their way into production. I, personally, get great results with modern FE development. My users are happy. I am happy. It's all very successful. All the defenders of modern FE development will likely chime in with the same sentiment. I also get great results with C, which arguably provides even more catastrophic opportunities for failure. I wouldn't say "C is a failure", but I absolutely hate working in C, and I'm glad we've made improvements to systems programming. I think the point I'm moving toward is that we absolutely should strive to make better tools for delivering web content, but the reasons for failure are far more complex than the tooling itself. So, let's not frame things in black and white and call something that's been used with large amounts of success a failure. That's not very productive and is just flame bait. The real question is, "What's next?", how are we going to improve the current situation?

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#26
post #4

Regardless of my tweet, that is a personal opinion based on my feelings, background and experiences, the discussions in the replies are interesting from the POV of understanding what different people think in the programming community. Some will say that critiques are only from old people, in the style "when I was young we had only zeroes! You now have ones and zeroes". Others say that the web is slow because of ADs…

I read it and feel it's the same as how we perceive modern music. Everyone says music "used to be better" but that's just survival bias. Just like music, there was a LOT of trash web development back in the day as well. Sites built with tables in dreamweaver best viewed on netscape navigator at 800x600 with animated gifs bogging the download speed existed long ago.

What we have today are the same problems with a new wrapper, created by a not dissimilar group of people from the past.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#27

I don't think that web is slow, unless you're running seriously underpowered computer. That's not the case for me. Web is not as fast as it could be. And that's because customer does not want to pay for fastest website in the world. It should be fast enough and then features matter. You can spend year making your website load in 0.1 second while your competitor will implement important features and his 2-second loadi…

The hardest thing is making things pretty and flexible while maintaining ease of development. Newer UI kits like Flutter are basically architected like game engines. This is a challenge that UI framework designers will have to confront if they want more native alternatives to electron. Whatever replaces electron must at the very least be similarly easy to use, accessible to many languages and runtimes, and trivial to style with non-copyleft usage license.

Re: I can only think that modern front end development has failed

#30
I run no script, if i cant get it working allowing no or very minimal js, i close the tab.

Life is too short for shitty slow, bloated websites and buggy apps. Just dont use this trash, if the devs aren't going to up their game and prioritize user experience over profits then fuck them.

The only way web developers are going to improve is if they start losing users and money. Until then they'll keep crapping out garbage.

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