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Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

bbc.com

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Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#101

Post by read_if_gay_ »

sanj wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, is just a "fun" joke that ties into stereotypes. "Haha, told you women couldn't drive, look at this one stopping global trade" and then it spirals out of control. Not sure we can or should read too much into it.

HN is a place for data: https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/27/1/71.abstract Men pose higher per-km risk to others than women for all modes except buses, as well as being over-represented among users of the most dangerous vehicles. (From abstract)

Intuitively, it seems correct that in aggregate, women kill less people on the road. From personal experience, most people can drive well enough regardless of who or what they are, but if someone's driving extremely riskily then it's almost always youngish males. But also, if someone's exceptionally incompetent then it's usually old people or women.

The distribution skews at the extremes and that's where the common perception that women can't drive comes from (and probably also the fact that men kill more people in aggregate). Actual data is not going to dissolve this perception because you see it every time you get outside.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#102

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

0xy wrote: post #26

I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...

What about getting more men in traditional female jobs like teaching and nursing and midwifery?

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#103

Post by sulam »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #38
supergirl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would be funny if it wasn't sad that women are so far behind that a woman ship captain is news.

I don't understand the 'behind' bit. What's 'behind' about not being a cargo ship captain? Do you have to force people into roles they don't want just to create a statistic to suggest equality?

I’m assuming you didn’t read the article. At the time she applied, women were not legally allowed to enter the merchant marines in Egypt. No less than Hosni Mubarak had to review and approve her application to join.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#104

Post by allendoerfer »

creata wrote: post #24
yostrovs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If lack of female ship captains is a sign that women are far behind, is lack of male school teachers, nurses, and HR professionals a sign that men are far behind?

At least in your first example, yes, it is a sign that men are far behind when it comes to being trusted with children. But that's not really relevant to the ship story.

They might be, but that‘s not the reason why there are less male teachers. It is not harder to become a teacher, when you are male. They are just less interested in becoming one (on average). As are women to drive container ships. Although I don’t think that there is just one woman, who wants to do it.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#105

Post by magicalhippo »

A couple of years ago one of five highly modern frigates in the Norwegian Navy collided with a barely moving oil tanker[1] in a well monitored area. The collision turned out to be fatal to the ship, which is now on its way to become scrap metal.

When it came to light that four out of five of the navigators on board were female, the results were fairly predictable[2][3].

Will be interesting to read the final accident report once it's released.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNoMS_Helge_Ingstad_(F313)

[2]: https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/kvinner-henges-ut-etter-hel...

[3]: https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/11/22/gender-pol...

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#106

Post by djrogers »

hnbad wrote: post #27
supergirl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would be funny if it wasn't sad that women are so far behind that a woman ship captain is news.

The news story is literally that she's the _first_ female captain, so it's safe to say that there are probably a lot of deeply entrenched prejudices against women in those roles. Jokes are (almost?) always political because it only works if you share similar views about what the world is like and how it should be. In this case the joke is that women are unfit to be captain, the setup is that "they" eventually "let" a…

> If you don't think women are unfit to be captain (or at least "intrinsically less fit" or whatever) the punchline doesn't work.

You seem to have a rather linear view of humor. People laugh at (and enjoy) comedians they disagree with all the time - a well crafted joke can be considered well crafted and funny by many people, regardless of the target or the listener’s personal beliefs.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#108

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

The best weapon against any kind of lies is facts.

Two lines: at the time of grounding Marwa Elselehdar were in charge of ship name. The Evergreen was under command of captain name and pilot name.

Am I the only one wondering why these two lines are not publishers yet?

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#109

Post by sanj »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #101
sanj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a place for data: https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/27/1/71.abstract Men pose higher per-km risk to others than women for all modes except buses, as well as being over-represented among users of the most dangerous vehicles. (From abstract)

Intuitively, it seems correct that in aggregate, women kill less people on the road. From personal experience, most people can drive well enough regardless of who or what they are, but if someone's driving extremely riskily then it's almost always youngish males. But also, if someone's exceptionally incompetent then it's usually old people or women. The distribution skews at the extremes and that's where the common p…

I work hard to discount “personal experience,” even mine, when actual data is available.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#110

Post by allendoerfer »

hnbad wrote: post #50
0xy wrote: post #26

I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...

The irony when people use these "gotchas" whenever anyone talks about women entering jobs they've been previously denied or actively removed from (e.g. programming?) is that you're literally complaining about the same thing as feminists, just from the other end. Yes, we should encourage women to take on ultra dangerous[0] jobs they're underrepresented in. We should also stop thinking the problem is a lack of encourag…

I always find it fascinating, when people start to claim words for themselves. I don’t even necessarily disagree with OP, it is just that the majority of it’s speakers (maybe within a context) decide what a word means in a language.
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