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Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

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Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#21
> "For every ton of phosphoric acid produced, the fertilizer industry creates 5 tons of radioactive phosphogypsum waste..."

Is that correct? That sounds unsustainable, as well as unprofitable.

Also, is it safe to presume that if the cost of proper disposal was reflected in the price of food, food would be significantly more expensive?

Finally, are there particular foods this is used for?

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#22
post #16
post #15

Industrial Agricultural is a biohazard. We need to embrace the methods we used to feed ourselves for millions of years, with nature instead of in opposition of nature. Reference: https://archive.org/details/permaculture1adesignersmanualbyb...

You mean cut the world population by order of magnitude and have majority of the populace slave on fields for a pittance. Sounds delightful.

Have you read their link? That doesn’t seem like the charitable interpretation of their views, though I share your desire to avoid that fate.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#23
post #19

So, how radioactiove exactly it is ? I suppose it's the very bad kind of radioactive too, since water can easily be ingested ?

I don't think there are any kinds of radiation that are safe to ingest. But yeah, I would guess it's gamma radiation.

Have you ever eaten a banana?

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#24

Quotes for the ages: "The water meets water quality standards for marine waters with the exception of pH, total phosphorus, total nitrogen and total ammonia nitrogen," "Marine water" itself will kill with three or four easy gulps, but I guess this wastewater is going into the ocean? It still sounds a bit too much like "yellow, except for the color, which is blue". Plus I'd expect any industrial wastewater to have lot…

The stack in danger of breaching was filled 8 years ago with sea water from dredging the port, and it is supporting wild life now, for what that's worth. In my experience, flora and fauna will grow under nearly any conditions, though.

Phosphate industry waste water has a pH of 1.5-2. The ponds are sterile and a lovely azure despite what Google Maps shows. Nothing grows on their banks naturally, though with substantial remediation over a couple of decades, it's possible to surround the pond with a ring of pines and grass...this is the Florida phosphate industry's "land and lakes" program.

From time to time Florida developers have built housing developments on "land and lakes" tracts. It usually ends badly because the ground is unstable (still settling after all being mined), though post-tensioned prestressed concrete slab foundations can be used to reduce cracking (but not eventually uneven floors).

In my experience with phosphate industry sludge ponds, nothing much grows. I just looked at aerials from a tract southeast of Bartow that was under consideration for development in 1997. It had been out of service for almost twenty years back then. The ponds are no longer obviously toxic, but there is still does not appear to be normal Florida native vegetation along any of the shorelines.

Not surprising given how acidic phosphate sludge water is.

The fact that sea water can be stored in the leaking stacks over in Manatee county speaks to how sterile they are. The salinity of seawater is deadly to typical terrestrial plants.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stack in danger of breaching was filled 8 years ago with sea water from dredging the port, and it is supporting wild life now, for what that's worth. In my experience, flora and fauna will grow under nearly any conditions, though.

And even flourish - lack of humans more than compensates high radioactivity levels, as the Tchernobyl example has shown.

It's not the radioactivity, it's the pH of 1.5-2. It kills most organisms quickly. There's no long term for long term radiation effects to manifest.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#26
post #15

Industrial Agricultural is a biohazard. We need to embrace the methods we used to feed ourselves for millions of years, with nature instead of in opposition of nature. Reference: https://archive.org/details/permaculture1adesignersmanualbyb...

> we used to feed ourselves for millions of years

Use of fire at all emerged about 1.5 million years ago. Homo Sapiens emerged about 300 thousand years ago. First signd of any sort of agriculture are from about 15 thousand years ago. Stone age ended and we got first bronze tools less than 10 thousand years ago.

The only method we have had "for millions of years" is hunter-gathering with stone tools.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#27

Sounds like a case of "it's too expensive to deal with this wastewater, so let's just put it in a big pond and hope the dam bursts and we can claim it was all a big accident" Mining industries are especially famous for this - there are ponds of waste that are 70 years old, just waiting for their moment to escape...

The trick is to make sure there are a few leaks in each containment pond so the waste slowly leaks into the water table.

Then when it rains the volume of waste doesn't increase.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stack in danger of breaching was filled 8 years ago with sea water from dredging the port, and it is supporting wild life now, for what that's worth. In my experience, flora and fauna will grow under nearly any conditions, though.

Phosphate industry waste water has a pH of 1.5-2. The ponds are sterile and a lovely azure despite what Google Maps shows. Nothing grows on their banks naturally, though with substantial remediation over a couple of decades, it's possible to surround the pond with a ring of pines and grass...this is the Florida phosphate industry's "land and lakes" program. From time to time Florida developers have built housing deve…

After 57 years, I'm all too familiar with phosphate mining, but these ponds are not sterile. A lot of stuff is growing there.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#29
post #15

Industrial Agricultural is a biohazard. We need to embrace the methods we used to feed ourselves for millions of years, with nature instead of in opposition of nature. Reference: https://archive.org/details/permaculture1adesignersmanualbyb...

Millions of years? Agriculture is less than 120,000 years old by most accounts. Are you suggesting the bulk of humanity returns to hunting and gathering? Even then accounts of early human history have us emerging less than a million years ago. I think permaculture practices have their benefits but that kind of hyperbole doesn't help the cause.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#30
post #16
post #15

Industrial Agricultural is a biohazard. We need to embrace the methods we used to feed ourselves for millions of years, with nature instead of in opposition of nature. Reference: https://archive.org/details/permaculture1adesignersmanualbyb...

You mean cut the world population by order of magnitude and have majority of the populace slave on fields for a pittance. Sounds delightful.

americans literally killed millions of bison for no reason, that was one example of a food source that would have been near infinite if managed correctly
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