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Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

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Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#71

Post by Applejinx »

rektide wrote: post #12
amelius wrote: post #3

Perhaps a stupid question, but why wouldn't coral reefs naturally move to colder areas (closer to the poles)? EDIT: turns out they do: https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-oceans-warm-tropical-coral...

My understanding is that temperature is only part of the problem. Acidification is ongoing, due to increased CO2 in the atmosphere. That's a global problem: the ocean is literally starving for oxygen, everywhere. If the thermohaline cycle in the Atlantic continues slowing down, there will be significantly less water circulating. There's a risk that bigger & bigger parts of the ocean just sit, don't flow, and thus nev…

Nope. Chaos theory says very much the opposite, and our experience is tending to back chaos theory here. I mean yes what you describe would also be bad, but it's not that we're going to see. I can't speak to the thermohaline cycle: perhaps you're describing something that'll happen specifically in the depths of the ocean? Sounds bad.

Up here where WE live, the possible extremes of weather are factors of chaotic energy, and small increases in global temperature will produce wider potential swings in weather behavior. So we are not at all going to see 'a lack of variety' and we're not seeing it now. We're seeing 'wait, WHAT' weather and it's only going to get worse.

The challenge is surviving those energies. Never mind colonizing Mars or Venus, the challenge we'll face is clinging on to THIS planet, and a hell of a lot of people will end up not able to survive what's coming. And it's subcultures like Hacker News we'll depend on, for people who'll come up with the 300-mph storm windows etc.

I own a house: I'm not thrilled at what's going on. I'm trying to work out what I've got to do in order to not be taken out by some kind of weather extreme beyond what we used to have when I was growing up.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#72

Post by laverya »

globular-toast wrote: post #17
bb123 wrote: post #9

This is so incredibly sad, and I feel so helpless that this is slipping through our fingers. I fear I’ll never get a chance to see a coral reef in real life, and it looks almost certain that my children won’t. Is there anything we can do as individuals to help? I tried looking into conservation efforts but it seems like any amount of money we could hope to donate isn’t going to make a drop of difference to sea temper…

You've already reproduced so you've already struck your blow and it's too late to take it back now.

If everyone who cares about the environment doesn't have kids, this just ensures that the children of those who don't care about the environment will rule the world.

And political stances are remarkably heritable.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#73

Post by [deleted] »

ridicter wrote: post #64
ianlevesque wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could do something that actually helps like moving transportation and power generation to renewables.

Reducing emissions to zero, scarily enough, is the minimum. We actually need to actively remove carbon from the atmosphere in order to prevent further temperature increases, which lag behind CO2 concentration by years.

[deleted]

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#74

Post by ghiculescu »

greeneggs wrote: post #69
ghiculescu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

btw if you want to see the reef in real life, it’s easy! From any major airport in the world you can probably get to Brisbane for $1000 USD return. Then Brisbane to Cairns is around $100 AUD return. You could win back the cost of your flights at the Cairns Casino, the best (worst) attraction in town! It’s far away from most people and it’s not cheap, but if you want to do it, spend the rest of this year saving up and…

You just have to be able to live with yourself, given that your trip (and presumably your lifestyle more generally) is destroying the very thing that you are visiting to admire. That's beyond me.

No it’s not. Most damage comes from cyclones.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#75

Post by TheRealSteel »

greeneggs wrote: post #69
ghiculescu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

btw if you want to see the reef in real life, it’s easy! From any major airport in the world you can probably get to Brisbane for $1000 USD return. Then Brisbane to Cairns is around $100 AUD return. You could win back the cost of your flights at the Cairns Casino, the best (worst) attraction in town! It’s far away from most people and it’s not cheap, but if you want to do it, spend the rest of this year saving up and…

You just have to be able to live with yourself, given that your trip (and presumably your lifestyle more generally) is destroying the very thing that you are visiting to admire. That's beyond me.

Civil aviation is 2% of global carbon emissions. It's also one of the hardest things to make clean. Flying is not something people should feel guilty about. We actually can, and probably should, keep civil aviation -- especially seeing as we need to implement carbon capture anyway.

Heating your house and eating meat contribute far more to your personal carbon footprint than flying, unless you fly much more than usual.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#76

Post by whymauri »

jeffbee wrote: post #70
ghiculescu wrote: post #52

I grew up in Queensland. During school in the late 90s, we were taught the same thing, except the reef was meant to already be gone by today. When I visited a few years ago, it was stunning. Hopefully this report won’t come true either, but it is hard to believe anyone predicting what Australia will be like in 2100. In any case, particularly on a forum like this, we should argue about what technological ideas we can…

You would be “stunned” by 1% of the Great Barrier Reef and wouldn’t notice the missing 99%. This bias is the central topic of the book “The Once and Future World”.

See also: "David Attenborough: A Life On Our Planet" which tackles similar themes w.r.t. conservation and nature.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#78

Post by samschooler »

diplodocusaur wrote: post #60

Suppose we ceased to exist. Are we certain that nature would 'repair' itself? What's the 'good' state measured by (objective function)? If we don't have it defined, I don't think we fully understand our relationship with the natural world and how to fix it.

It would “repair” itself in the sense that the animals already endangered may go extinct, the damage we caused would run its course. But over a few millennia our effect on our environment would slowly go away and life and the planet would move on without us.

Global warming is an issue for life, but because it affects humans and the economy is why we care. Animal will migrate, go extinct, or adapt, but ultimately the ecosystem will move on.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#79

Post by ip26 »

diplodocusaur wrote: post #60

Suppose we ceased to exist. Are we certain that nature would 'repair' itself? What's the 'good' state measured by (objective function)? If we don't have it defined, I don't think we fully understand our relationship with the natural world and how to fix it.

What's the 'good' state

In simple terms my understanding is, high biodiversity. More diversity is correlated with resilience, adaptability, etc.

Re: Barrier Reef doomed as up to 99% of coral at risk, report finds

#80

Post by refurb »

porb121 wrote: post #45
refurb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I read tells me that it’s too late. Even if we stop all CO2 production tomorrow there will be severe climate change due to the CO2 already released. Seems like the best idea is to just enjoy the time we have left.

That's quite simply not true. If we stopped all CO2 production tomorrow, we'd by well under 1.5 degrees of warming by 2100.

Not what I’ve read. It will slow things down and yes, would be under 1.5 degrees, but there will still be massive upheaval.
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