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If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

nytimes.com

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Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#71

Post by tchalla »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

> So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser.

Firefox Focus is a decent alternative with the best of both worlds.

http://mzl.la/1NDD2IB

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#72

Post by xoa »

city41 wrote: post #65
xoa wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features. I strongly disagree with you. The new IE6 is Chrome: overwhelming dominance of the web to the extent that Google can dictate "standards" themselves and users begin to lose the ability to use other browsers because "site works best(only) in Chrome", and I think that having my…

The web is the only open platform we have ever had and probably will ever have. To shun it for proprietary app stores and OSes is really disheartening. I'm the exact opposite, the more web apps the better. And sadly, Safari is holding the web back. Not only does it miss many features of modern browsers, it's very buggy. I find I have to make work arounds for Safari specific bugs in almost every website I make now.

>The web is the only open platform we have ever had and probably will ever have.

Are you trying to make some sort of joke here? How is the Web more open than Linux or the BSDs running FOSS applications? And in fact how is the web under Chrome any more open than macOS or Windows? Seriously. In all cases, you can't just freely modify everything about the platform you're running on top of or most of the "applications" you're running. There's a megacorp behind each whose interests may or may not align with yours. You don't get to choose what they do or how. But you can still make whatever you'd like on top for no cost, though you may have to spend money to get attention. And if you make something malicious, you might get added to a blacklist that is distributed to all users. Etc.

In essence Google wants our "operating system" to be Chrome or another of their properties, either as a sort of meta-OS layered on top of the hardware OS or more directly via Chrome OS/Android+Google Play Services. And their financial interest in that is almost exclusively to get data about us to run ads at us, and to the extent possible prevent or hinder avoidance of that harvest or those ads.

It's not just that I don't want an ad company to make my operating system, I don't want an internet-required OS at all. And I want a wide variety of software with zero WAN dependency beyond maybe initial delivery somewhere in the chain. If that's not something you're interested in fine, but lots of us will remain willing to put our money where our mouths are on that one.

I also disagree that Safari is "holding the web back" because I like simple, readable and parseable websites.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#73

Post by awwaiid »

tchalla wrote: post #71
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

> So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. Firefox Focus is a decent alternative with the best of both worlds. http://mzl.la/1NDD2IB

What do you mean? I think on iOS it is still rendering with Safari.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#74

Post by idop »

paulcole wrote: post #57

After trying Duck Duck Go and Brave’s products, it turns out I actually don’t care much about privacy. I care much more about using a product I like and that works the way I want. Has anyone else felt this way?

That last sentence - "I care much more about using a product I like and that works the way I want" - perfectly describes my usage of Firefox with a heavily modified configuration and various addons, all for the sake of privacy and security-related purposes.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#75

Post by oneplane »

xnx wrote: post #51
xoa wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features. I strongly disagree with you. The new IE6 is Chrome: overwhelming dominance of the web to the extent that Google can dictate "standards" themselves and users begin to lose the ability to use other browsers because "site works best(only) in Chrome", and I think that having my…

For me the primary characteristic of IE6 was not that it had a large market share like Chrome, but that it didn't update for over 5 years. Chrome is nothing like IE6 in that regard. The web would be better off if iOS users could benefit from the full Chrome codebase.

That might be, as you point out, the primary thing for _you_. At the same time, Safari updates plenty of times, just because they don't shout about it doesn't mean it's not happening. Same goes for the backing engines (including Blink and V8 in Chromium and derivatives like CEF and node; but also WebKit and the likes).

The web would be better if it wasn't dominated by a very small set of platforms. Adding 'a few more browsers' on a single operating system hardly helps.

Right now, the 'web' isn't much more aside from Google, Facebook and a few commercial offerings like the various eCommerce websites, and they are all accessed on 2, maybe 3 operating system foundations, with perhaps 1 or 2 relevant browser engines. Adding Gecko or Chrome on iOS changes nothing.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#76

Post by dunefox »

fastball wrote: post #28
preommr wrote: post #18

This is not the way. If we relegate privacy to fringe browsers like this, we'll lose in the long run. It's not possible to have 0.05% percent of the market, and try and compete with goliaths like Google. So it creates a feedback loop of a browser that people don't really use because it lacks features/popularity. Or/and these companies are also forced to do things like Brave and their in-browser ads. Meanwhile there'l…

Seems like Brave is best of both worlds in this case. It's a Chromium browser with a focus on privacy.

Chromium still gives google market share. Firefox is the only option.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#77

Post by jrochkind1 »

OK, we know these kinds of articles often get a lot of things wrong. I'm not interested in critiquing the article really cause it's boring even though I'm pretty sure the journalist confused about some things.

But i am interested in my own understanding. I don't know too much about these products.

Ordinary Firefox was not mentioned -- maybe he's only interested in things that run on mobile? It's not clear to me.

But my question about the actual topic is, is there any reason DuckDuckGo or Brave would be more privacy-protecting than ordinary Firefox, any features they have thus?

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#78

Post by teekert »

skrowl wrote: post #70
teekert wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently switched from Android to iOS and this was super confusing. No plugins, except for on the OS level (like AdGuard) and then those don’t even work in that weird neutered Firefox, only in Safari :s Oh and Bitwarden does not work in FF. It it does work in Safari! So now I, a Firefox by default person switched to Safari (on iOS at least). I wish full Firefox was present.

A lot of people notice that when downgrading from Android to iOS. Be prepared to no longer be able to easily install new launchers / home apps / emulators / adult apps / etc either. Hopefully we have you back on the open source side soon!

Hehe well, there were some pleasant surprises: Nextcloud works well (auto picture upload), imap mail, webdav, caldav all work with no extra apps needed (with Nextcloud as backend). WireGuard vpn works well, Home Assitant works. No extra app needed for podcasts. Element works, facetime is the best video call experience so far. I do really miss fdroid indeed and apps like GadgetBridge and OSMand (full version). Yeah it’s a walled garden but it has enough gates for me so far.

I do like the privacy notices a lot more though, often they’ll state that nothing is shared and everything stays on the phone. Android with Google play is not as open and under my control as I wished, it’s one of the reasons why the step to iOS is minor imho (freedom-wise).

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#79

Post by city41 »

xoa wrote: post #72
city41 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is the only open platform we have ever had and probably will ever have. To shun it for proprietary app stores and OSes is really disheartening. I'm the exact opposite, the more web apps the better. And sadly, Safari is holding the web back. Not only does it miss many features of modern browsers, it's very buggy. I find I have to make work arounds for Safari specific bugs in almost every website I make now.

> The web is the only open platform we have ever had and probably will ever have. Are you trying to make some sort of joke here? How is the Web more open than Linux or the BSDs running FOSS applications? And in fact how is the web under Chrome any more open than macOS or Windows? Seriously. In all cases, you can't just freely modify everything about the platform you're running on top of or most of the "applications"…

You're conflating two issues. Chromium's dominance is a problem for sure, but that is separate from the web being an open platform. The web is more open than Linux (which I use btw) because a web app can run on Linux, MacOS, Windows, FreeBSD, Android, iOS and more without recompiling, redistributing or re-anything. Would it be nice if it wasn't HTML/JS/CSS based? Absolutely. But we gotta take what we can get.

I couldn't agree more that Google's dominance in web technology is a problem. But you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

And just to add, the current situation is still better than proprietary native apps on MacOS and Windows. I can at least use Chromium in many forms and on virtually any operating system. Not ideal, but the alternative people in this thread are suggesting is far worse.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#80

Post by ornornor »

teekert wrote: post #23
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

I recently switched from Android to iOS and this was super confusing. No plugins, except for on the OS level (like AdGuard) and then those don’t even work in that weird neutered Firefox, only in Safari :s Oh and Bitwarden does not work in FF. It it does work in Safari! So now I, a Firefox by default person switched to Safari (on iOS at least). I wish full Firefox was present.

Try nextdns.io. It blocks ads systemwide (except the YT app, and a few websites that use JS tricks to inject ads)

Bitwarden works very well for me in iOS FF and any other app.

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