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Learning about the navigational feats of animals

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Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#81

Post by aksss »

> ask [people] to walk across a field toward a target, and then conceal the target after they start moving, they will stray off course in approximately eight seconds

In sea kayak navigation you quickly learn the importance of observing your reciprocal heading, the bearings of visible landmarks, and paying attention to wind direction relative to your heading. That works on land too, but people aren’t inclined to be that observant unless taught and a habit formed.

The article is full of fascinating trivia, but the point about geese that overwinter in your local park having missed out on a migration as a gosling and thus never learned how to navigate to/from home, was fascinating to me - we have a lot of those geese and mallards that spend the winter here. I’ve often wondered if they stay all year or have shorter migrations.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#82

Post by katbyte »

grey413 wrote: post #47
KMag wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I know lots of people who will walk 2 sides of a triangle because they know how to get from A to B and A to C, but just don't have a sense that B and C are rather close. I think they feel there's probably a shortcut between B and C, but they just don't have the sense of direction to just walk in the general direction from B toward C until things start looking familiar. I also can't count the number of tim…

I hate it when map apps spin. Just absolutely hampers any ability to develop a bigger picture idea of how you're navigating, and is terribly confusing when the app gets your heading wrong, as your friend found out.

Up is always north in my phone, and I’m always amazing how it trips people up

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#83

Post by throwawayboise »

Grazester wrote: post #18
Roark66 wrote: post #2

I'm not quite convinced that "animals don't get lost". How many lost cats never return for every one that does? Did anyone ever make a real study? Also there are other questionable bits in the article for example "We now have geolocation devices light enough to be carried by monarch butterflies". Where are those devices described? For years I've been looking for a reliable GPS tracking for cats that don't require the…

I have had probably more than a hundred cats throughout my childhood more than 13(kittens) at one given point. All my cats were outside/indoor cats free to go and come and I am convinced that the cats that would go out and not come back were either killed by dogs in the surrounding neighborhoods or simply didn't not want to come back. The cats that would not usually return were the older ones. If a younger cat did no…

> The cats that would not usually return were the older ones.

Cats that are about to die will often go off somewhere by themselves.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#84

Post by throwawayboise »

burlesona wrote: post #42

The idea that humans are the worst navigators ever is rather silly. Humans who actually explore the world without being spaced out by their smartphone can roam and find their way back perfectly well. But navigation is like a muscle, and most of us have allowed it to atrophy because it’s easy to just mindlessly follow what your GPS of choice tells you to do. I don’t think the “humans can’t navigate” premise of this ar…

I find if I go somewhere with my phone navigating, I have much less of a sense of how to backtrack. If I use written directions or a paper map, I can usually get back with little difficulty.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#85

Post by xyzzyz »

goodcanadian wrote: post #74
xyzzyz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

William Thesiger in his book recounts that the Bedouins he traveled with could also identify and navigate based on the shape of the dunes too, and they had memory and recognition of various dune landscapes from many, many places.

If I had to guess, I would suppose that they are not recognising specific dunes (which would be constantly changing), but patterns in the dunes caused by prevailing winds. I am sure there is something analogous to the Polynesian voyagers recognising patterns in the waves and currents of the ocean.

Dunes are changing much more slowly than you think. They are huge and heavy, and they can hold shape for decades.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#86

Post by bsenftner »

aksss wrote: post #72
bsenftner wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've worked on one such geolocation device about the size of a grain of rice, and that was 30 years ago. It was a tracking device started by a former Israeli military intelligence officer after his family was scattered in a terrorist attack and it was days before everyone could be accounted. This tracking device was the size of a pack of cigarettes' when in development, and by the time I left the company (late…

We talkin’ basmati or sushi rice? And how was it powered?

It was basically a miniaturized pager, powered by a tiny military watch type battery. The device was an ASIC, application specific integrated circuit, and it sat on the battery like a little bead.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#87

Post by helloworld11 »

ShawnCleverdon wrote: post #53
detritus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm sure I read a year or two back that Cats have an odd sense of direction in which they don't 'join up' different paths - say, that from out of the front of a building, to that out of the back. Rings true with a cat we have in our building here which simply cannot register that the back door has access for it, so waits out front no matter how inclement the weather. Mind you, it IS a cat - so likely purposeful…

Please stop perpetuating the myth that cats are "arseholes". Cats, much like dogs, and every other non-human on the planet, have different drives and understandings than a human. Just because we aren't capable of fully understanding those drives isn't a reason to denigrate them. The next time your cat does something that is outside of your understanding, please have a little compassion.

And some humans apparently also completely lack a sense of tolerance for humourous criticisms of animals.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#88

Post by enriquto »

meowface wrote: post #52
enriquto wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their interpretation of the title seems the normal one, yours is very convoluted, like aspiring to some sort of plausible deniability. If the title was "Why people from country X are thiefs.", that would be very insulting to people from X. If the article turned out to be about why some people from X become thiefs, the title would be very misleading.

A closer analogy would be "Why people from country X steal" ("get lost" and "steal" are action statements), which, while initially a bit suspicious upon first look, isn't necessarily insulting. "Why people from country X steal - [Opening sentence] Due to unprecedented levels of corruption and cruelty by their new tyrannical government, a third of the population is starving from man-made famines, leaving many country…

> not necessarily xenophobic

So, to be more specific, the following titles would not be necessarily xenophobic according to your argument:

Why Indians cheat in exams. This is an article about one person of Asian origin that was found to cheat on an exam, and explores its family background and life history that lead to this situation. The author deplores that the young person had to resort to the sad practice of cheating.

Why Jews occupy positions of power. This one is about the excellent homeschooling tradition by some Jewish families that have enabled their kids to be successful in life. It is illustrated by the life stories of three such kids that went on to become powerful CEOs.

Why black people go to live in poor and violent ghettos. This is an article about a black boy that was born in a well-adjusted middle-class family on a good neighborhood but after a sad series of circumstances he was found out living as a drug dealer at the other side of the country. The (black) author deplores that such a promising kid had this horrible fate, and also mentions a couple of other similar cases.

> In my opinion, the headline's perfectly fine and clear.

So, in your opinion, the three headlines that I wrote as examples would be also "perfectly fine and clear"? I don't think so, to me they sound as disgusting racist clickbait, or at least as very misleading titles. The exact same thing for "why animals don't get lost" (and not only for me, many people are complaining that the title is confusing or misleading).

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#89

Post by Roark66 »

rlander wrote: post #61
dsego wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Male cats are usually the ones to go out and then come back in a few days, next time few weeks, then months... and then they disappear for good. I've never had a female cat go away like that.

Does that apply to neutered males?

My neutered male cat sometimes disappeares but with exception of that one time I had to fetch him from the top of a 14m tall pine tree he always returns. My other cat (also a neutered male) never goes away for more than half a day.

Re: Learning about the navigational feats of animals

#90

Post by Roark66 »

_Microft wrote: post #17
Roark66 wrote: post #2

I'm not quite convinced that "animals don't get lost". How many lost cats never return for every one that does? Did anyone ever make a real study? Also there are other questionable bits in the article for example "We now have geolocation devices light enough to be carried by monarch butterflies". Where are those devices described? For years I've been looking for a reliable GPS tracking for cats that don't require the…

I heard that most cats are actually found before they are lost, i.e. well-meaning people bringing them to an animal shelter while the cat would have been perfectly fine on their own. I can not say how they came to that conclusion (a guess: maybe by owners saying that it was perfectly normal for the cat to roam the same distances from home as when they were caught and brought to the shelter?)

I can definitely see how that could happen in many places,but very unlikely where I'm at. We don't even have a cat shelter in my area(dogs only - no idea why). Also, and that really pisses me off, people here are generally of the opinion every cat will happily survive on their own in the countryside which leads to people from cities abandoning unwanted cats (and dogs) here(this is how I got my first cat) . I even had a ridiculous situation of someone dropping two dogs in front of my property at 4am. The dogs had nowhere to go so they hanged around my place for two days (it was a weekend so I couldn't ring animal control). On the third day the same person came and picked the dogs back... I have no idea what such people think.
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