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Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

economist.com

61–70 of 424 posts

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#61
post #56
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or houses not in the USA. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity... : “The average American or Canadian household in 2010 used about twenty times more than the typical Nigerian household, and two to three times more than a typical European home”

Why is that? Is it because North Americans use electricity for cooking and heating whereas other countries use gas for that?

It's cause we're #1!!!

/s

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#62
post #38

lithium is just cheap because it wrecks some 3rd world countries natural resources. If they'd slap the price of recovery times it will need to regrow nature in that place, it wouldn't be as cheap.

We would just scale up extraction from the ocean, lithium is very prevalent.

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#63
post #6

The article says that today a battery pack the size of a backpack and that weighs about 40kg, can power a house for a day. Is that really so? Would that be a normal house, being powered for an entire day? I find it hard to believe that battery would pack that much energy

40kg translates to 4-9kWh depending on the chemistry, meanwhile houses in the UK draw around 3kWh/day averaged over a year so unless a house is woefully inefficient, it checks out.

3kWh/day so around 1100 kwh/a seems to me on the low side. Two person household in Germany uses 3600kwh/a electricity. Do you have sources?

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. I vaguely remembered that people run the ac in reverse for heat, but that is probably only in paces that almost need no heating. Do you know why you use that much? Do you heat your water with electricity? Fridge, freezer, tv, WiFi, Desktop PC, charging phones and laptop, ligths.

- AC is a very common consumer of large amounts of electricity (depending on the region, many regions will have almost no AC while other regions will have it in every building running almost constantly) - Electrical heat is not the most common form of heating, but it's been growing a lot and is also a big consumer when it is used - Laundry Washer/Dryer are pretty large consumers (mostly the dryer) - Water heaters are…

(electric tumble) dryers are an interesting point. They're getting more common, but most people I know in the UK either don't have one, or have one but don't use it for normal washes (they use a washing line or a clothes horse).

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#65
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric heat isn't super common, especially in standalone houses, in areas where you need a lot of heat in the US. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but electricity costs a lot more than gas or oil. You're right about the AC but I still use 20 kWh even with no AC (and no electric heat).

Do you have any idea what that is going on? Just really inefficient appliances?

I don't think anything is "going on" given that my consumption is about average for my area. I do have 3 fridges which are all pretty old at this point which is certainly some ongoing load. I also have at least the usual number of electronic devices consuming at least standby loads. Then there are the usual intermittent things like electric dryer, dishwasher, etc.

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#66
post #56
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or houses not in the USA. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity... : “The average American or Canadian household in 2010 used about twenty times more than the typical Nigerian household, and two to three times more than a typical European home”

Why is that? Is it because North Americans use electricity for cooking and heating whereas other countries use gas for that?

We average 400-500 in the spring, fall, and winter. In the summer with AC however we'll double that. We are in a northern climate, I have to imagine in the south it gets pretty spendy for AC.

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#67
post #55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average US house is not the average house, nor is it representative of normal in the world we live in, which happens to dwarf the US by a factor of roughly 25.

I don't assume they mean something smaller than a factor of 25 either. 1.2kWh would be substantially less than 40kg.

No, no, the world is 25 times bigger than the US, by population. So it's ridiculous to equate houses with US houses, especially when reading a British publication.

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#68
post #54
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40kg translates to 4-9kWh depending on the chemistry, meanwhile houses in the UK draw around 3kWh/day averaged over a year so unless a house is woefully inefficient, it checks out.

No way. 90kWh/month? My Silicon Valley house consumed ~450kWh/month (15kWh/day) (before we bought an EV) which is very much on the low side from what I see here. 1100sqft. No A/C. Rarely run the heat. Every single light in the house is an LED. Gas appliances. 2 people, not home during the day.

Your neighbour is stealing power. 15kwh/day means you are permanently using 600 Watts. Do you have a stationary (desktop) computer? Or do you underestimate heating. You can burn through your whole years budget easily in less than two month. What about the oven, I mean do you bake?

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#69
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. I vaguely remembered that people run the ac in reverse for heat, but that is probably only in paces that almost need no heating. Do you know why you use that much? Do you heat your water with electricity? Fridge, freezer, tv, WiFi, Desktop PC, charging phones and laptop, ligths.

Not really. My electricity usage is considered normal so I've never really looked into it. Additional freezer, washer & dryer, oven (I have a propane range but many do not), microwave, there's some additional water heating in the dishwasher as well as for drying, TVs, other electronics like printer stereo etc., furnace/water heater are oil but still have pumps etc.

That's fascinating as it's not really that different from myself.

I'm alone in a flat tough, I guess you are a family?

Re: Lithium battery costs have fallen by 98% in three decades

#70
post #3

The article says that today a battery pack the size of a backpack and that weighs about 40kg, can power a house for a day. Is that really so? Would that be a normal house, being powered for an entire day? I find it hard to believe that battery would pack that much energy

A Tesla Powerwall 2 weighs 114.0 kg and provides 13.5 kWh. Average US household electricity consumption is 877 kWh/month, which would be 29kWh/day. Either they mean a very efficient/small house, or homeowners with unusually frugal habits. Edit: Average UK household electricity consumption appears to be around 10kWh/day.

South Africa here.

Our house uses about 20 kWh a day during the summer, with some minor AC usage in one of the rooms when needed.

During the winter probably about 30kWh, and that excludes extra costs like wood for fireplace.

My house is fully insulated and all windows are double glazed, so that keeps energy usage more efficient. I also have a solar heater (aka "geyser") which lowers energy costs even more. So with that in mind, I really can't believe they're using less than this in Europe...

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