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Who Owns the Nile?

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Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depressing. I'll call it like it is. This is an idiotic response that lacks common sense. It's so common in the pro Egypt camp. Most of the inventory is filled with short range equipment. The only jets able to reach Ethiopia are the Rafales and the SU-35 which make up a minority. They're not enough. More importantly, wars are not won by equipment (though they help immensely). I don't get why such reductive opinions a…

Egypt and Sudan have signed a defense pact, and they are aligned on this issue. If and when push comes to shove I bet Egypt would use Sudan's air fields, and that would be more than enough range to bomb half the country(the half that has the river/lake) into oblivion with their 200+ F-16s. Also I don't sympathize with any side -- just made an observation that Ethiopia is very weak comparatively, and considering water…

I'm copy pasting a comment I made earlier.

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I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward. "Egypt has hundreds of fighter jets. Ethiopia has 20, We can turn the dam into dust". They probably can. But then what? History is not over yet.

Egypt thinks of Ethiopia as enemy state. A lot of Ethiopians believe Egypt supports every rebel group in Ethiopia. But Ethiopians still don't view Egypt as an enemy, more like a thorn on the side. For thousands of years the Nile has been flowing toward Egypt without much objection. Bombing the dam will change that. It is the equivalent to creating a monster at your water source. Ethiopia will not try to block the water or anything like that. But it can and probably will start small irrigation projects everywhere. And it will stop consulting with Egypt. In the end, this will be much more devastating to Egypt than a hydro-electric dam which isn't even used for irrigation.

What baffles me about the Egyptian stance is, climate change is coming. Projections for fresh water in Africa in the coming decades don't look rosy. Mitigation for this is, fresh water sources should be developed and protected from environmental degradation. And you need the cooperation of upstream countries to do that. Being source of 85% of the Nile, Ethiopia's support is needed to do that.

Even if Ethiopia stops constructing the dam right now, in 50 years, at a time Egypt is sporting 200 million souls, there is potential that water levels on the Nile are probably going to decrease purely from climate change.

The talk of war is stupid. Playing zero sum game of "Only Egypt" is a bad idea.

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I called your opinion reductive because, it does not consider potential consequences and is oblivious to the various factors behind Sudanese change of position. I called your opinion idiotic because it contained this statement "Egypt can just occupy them, install a puppet regime and then move on. They definitely have that capability" which is an idiotic statement and because it will create more problems than it solves. I am sorry it sounds rude but some things need to be made clear.

Fyi, Egypt invaded Ethiopia twice already and were repulsed.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egypt and Sudan have signed a defense pact, and they are aligned on this issue. If and when push comes to shove I bet Egypt would use Sudan's air fields, and that would be more than enough range to bomb half the country(the half that has the river/lake) into oblivion with their 200+ F-16s. Also I don't sympathize with any side -- just made an observation that Ethiopia is very weak comparatively, and considering water…

I'm copy pasting a comment I made earlier. ================================================================ I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward. "Egypt has hundreds of fighter jets. Ethiopia has 20, We can turn the dam into dust". They probably can. But then what? History is not over yet. Egypt thinks of Ethiopia as enemy…

>copy pasting a comment I made earlier.

And it's mostly unrelated to what I said.

>The talk of war is stupid. Playing zero sum game of "Only Egypt" is a bad idea.

Well you have a strong pro-peace opinion, doesn't mean that people who don't have strong opinions either way and are just observing should be silenced.

>it does not consider potential consequences

I shouldn't express opinions on the possible Egyptian actions and their capabilities because Egyptian actions would cause consequences? Are you ok?

>opinion idiotic because it will create more problems than it solves.

A harmful opinion on HN? I promise you Al-Sisi or his entourage don't read HN. And yet you didn't provide any arguments on why Egypt wouldn't or couldn't do it, only that it shouldn't.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#103
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. in these situations they would bomb the GERD then ditch, out of fuel, in international waters ready to be picked up or in Sudan. It's been done before. For really high value targets range doesn't matter as much.

Which means they couldn't maneuver at all at the attack site, making themselves extremely vulnerable; Furthermore, a dam is an highly fortified target by nature, making serious damage requires very heavy bombs, not sure they could make it even as a one way trip if they are properly armed. IMHO, most likely result of an attack (for Egypt) is that Egypt loses a part of its airforce in return for temporarily harming Eth…

They could certainly maneuver at the attack site - there is very limited depth for Ethiopian defences as the dam is only ten miles from the Sudanese border.

But yes, the planes would be expendable. That said, Egypt could very well breach the dam itself. It would needs some creative use of munitions but modern munitions are precise enough to allow for breaching of dams.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#104
I see several persons claiming a lot of what is being said over the last few years as a propaganda from the Ethiopians as people or as a Government. Egypt only receives 55.5 billion cubic of water. Do you know how much the Nile rover represent for Egypt as a source of water? ONLY 83.1% of the FRESH WATER. https://water.fanack.com/egypt/water-resources/

Egypt has NO other water resources except the Nile river. How about Ethiopia? AT LESAT 936.4 BILLION Cubic meters and we don’t count underground water here (16.9 times as the Egyptians). https://www.worldometers.info/water/ethiopia-water/ Simply speaking: what does Ethiopia need? Ethiopia wants to SELL the water to Egypt. Ethiopia is being used as a dirty hand to get Egypt down in any debate with major forces especially Israel.

Water MUST NOT be sold. You CAN NOT trade lives of millions by money. This problem should be finished once and for ever. All the Nile river African countries have ZERO problem of water supplies EXCEPT Egypt. Egypt is already suffering from extreme water deficiency. Ethiopians always claim that they don’t get any benefit from the Blue Nile. Well, the answer is so simple, it is the civil wars that got your country sunk in bloodsheds of killing, it is your divided ethnic groups, it is your inadequate capability of using the huge water resources that you already have. I am not sure who supports negotiating about the lives of millions of people by trading their lives with money. You guys don’t imagine the consequences. It is not about war only, it is about uncontrolled anger which will reach a lot of places in the Ethiopian country. Last, if you don’t have enough information about this debate, do not place meaningless comment. This is not your daily sh* you post on social media. Numbers talk. That what we all know. Without number, what we say is just garbage. Grow up and have the info. Do not place your fail as a country or people on another nation

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore. The US is an oil exporting nation now.

> The US is an oil exporting nation now. That is irrelevant. Oil is fungible. Block oil exports from the Middle East and the price of oil skyrockets worldwide including in the US.

As an oil exporting nation, rising oil prices are now good for the US!

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that economic interdependence deserves the bulk of the credit for this relative peace. Tying the economic prosperity of nations together makes it harder to rationalise physical conflict. But perhaps we can also thank global communications for making it that little bit harder (though still by no means impossible) to sufficiently otherise far away populations.

> economic interdependence deserves the bulk of the credit for this relative peace. That was the thesis of a book called The Great Illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion The book argued a European war was very unlikely. the economic interdependence between industrial countries would be "the real guarantor of the good behavior of one state to another", as it meant that war would be economically harm…

The author could well have been right, but underestimated how much economic interdependence was required for his thesis to hold.
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