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Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

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Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just finished a consultancy gig with a startup where the CEO expected every employee (almost two dozen) to handle the extremely high risk, while doing nothing about managing the risk... I’m sorry but I feel your idea is transmitted through foggy lens of corporate hate.

As harsh as that reality is, in all seriousness, if that scares you why on Earth would you work for a start up?

There are other reasons people enjoy working at startups.

I currently work at a large org, decent team, the pay and hours are good, they look after their people pretty well. I'm pretty happy, but...

But getting anything done is a pain, because every project ultimately touches at least 5-10 different teams - legal, compliance, couple of systems teams, operations, security, risk/grc (different department from technical security!), supplier assurance (sub department of risk), privacy (different department from legal & security!), architecture, marketing, brand (different from marketing for some reason), etc. These are just the ones I remember talking to in the past year, sometimes other "interested" teams come out of the woodwork. For example, if your project touches "retail" there's a whole separate world there.

There are good reasons all these different department exist (enforce best practices / scar tissue / to protect the org), but most of those people have no interest in the success of your project and have no "skin in the game". They are free to govern you to death because they have no other real work to do. They don't have to ship anything and do not bear the costs of the requirements they impose. The tendency is therefore for compliance requirements to escalate.

New people come in, excited about doing things, and you watch them slowly get crushed as the sum of all the external requirements and legacy tech forces endless delay and compromise.

Startups let you ship more, with less "oversight" and assume different (often broader) responsibilities. If you're lucky, and in a high-trust competent team, it feels low friction. A lot of people (including me) enjoy that.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#22
post #9

Hiring is just like any other kind of marketing: an employer is going to paint a rosy picture to get you to join, and you are going to paint a rosy picture to get hired. At the end of the day ignore the rosy picture and look at the fundamentals - whether it's a big organization or a tiny startup. Will this job be good for my career? What's the feedback from ex-employees or customers? (Glassdoor etc). What's the salar…

“Continuous integration and testing practices? We think those things are great, but we’ve been too busy to get to that, because we’re a startup ...”

“Continuous integration and testing practices" are useless when you are going to rewrite the software from ground up every year or two years. You just patch the software until it's time to throw it away.

Many startups write something that they can sell, get experience, realize what they should have been doing instead, then do that.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#23
I'm CTO at a startup and I've made a 180 on this in the last year. I used to paint a rosey picture. Now I feel it's my duty to give employees full disclosure on what they can expect: cash burn, runway, technical debt, what we likely can and can not spend time on, that potential stock options should not influence the decision making, because the future is impossible to predict and it's very likely to be worth nothing.

I do also tell candidates that it's an investment in themselves and a great learning experience. You'll get more responsibilities than in typical companies and you'll be very out of your comfort zone. If you're the kind of person that thrives in such an environment, and learns best by experience rather than by theory, then this might be for you.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#24

Big tears. Start ups are extremely high risk. If that’s not your cup of tea then go work for a mega Corp with better medical and retirement benefits.

The main complaint is about lies and misrepresentation as well as lack of empathy and appreciation; certainly that isn't particular to startups (and not all startups are like that) but your dismissal implies startup founders get some sort of pass for lying and generally behaving like shits.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#25
Misrepresentation and lack of appreciation is common to plenty of companies; nothing to do with startups particularly, so I'm confused as to the reason for that specific targeting.

I think as much as anything its just (unfortunately) part of the system; some people lack ethics, some are just under pressure to recruit without anything to distinguish them to the employee beyond what they can conjure up as a goal and hope it sticks.

Needless to say, there are plenty of recruiters who could point their fingers at employees not fulfilling their part of the deal as well.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#26

I'm CTO at a startup and I've made a 180 on this in the last year. I used to paint a rosey picture. Now I feel it's my duty to give employees full disclosure on what they can expect: cash burn, runway, technical debt, what we likely can and can not spend time on, that potential stock options should not influence the decision making, because the future is impossible to predict and it's very likely to be worth nothing.…

First, thank you.

Second, as I read “... because the future is impossible to predict and it’s very likely to be worth nothing”, I thought, “Hmmm, that’s the arc of life itself, when we cut through all the delusions.”

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#27

So sick of this too, particularly the notion that you should be thankful and happy to work for a startup. Do you believe strongly and are you passionate about what we are doing? I'm like no dude I can code and want to get paid for it, do you ask if your plumber is very excited about fixing your toilet?

On top of that the whole masquerade of "We here at want to make the world a better place and truly believe that". Marketing lies are one thing but being forced to repeat the ad slogans inside your work environment is just creepy.

Plus they’ll be making something like ‘plumbing tools, but for dogs’.

Like, I’m happy you are paying me a lot of money to work for you, but don’t expect me to be excited about that.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#28
post #15
post #4

In other news: water is wet. Company isn’t a family, HR isn’t your friend, CEOs care about shareholder value. But no point being upset about it, you can learn to filter the copro speak out.

Do you mean "copro" as in shit? Or "corpo" as in corporate?

I think both apply equally?

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As harsh as that reality is, in all seriousness, if that scares you why on Earth would you work for a start up?

There are other reasons people enjoy working at startups. I currently work at a large org, decent team, the pay and hours are good, they look after their people pretty well. I'm pretty happy, but... But getting anything done is a pain, because every project ultimately touches at least 5-10 different teams - legal, compliance, couple of systems teams, operations, security, risk/grc (different department from technical…

Oh man, this is a fantastic summary.

Re: Sick of these startup executives, painting a rosy picture for employees

#30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Continuous integration and testing practices? We think those things are great, but we’ve been too busy to get to that, because we’re a startup ...”

“Continuous integration and testing practices" are useless when you are going to rewrite the software from ground up every year or two years. You just patch the software until it's time to throw it away. Many startups write something that they can sell, get experience, realize what they should have been doing instead, then do that.

“Continuous integration and testing practices" are not exactly a great burden, and you don't know when the thing you are working on is going to snowball and become the thing you need to nurture and grow. Even if you pivot, you will likely want to re-use code written for earlier attempts.

I suspect the reason startups don't do the bare minimum here is because their developers tend to be cheaper and less experienced (at least until they get funding), and "we move fast and break things" is just a lame justification for incompetence.

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