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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#941
post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there really cultures where inflicting suffering on others is not "within their cultural frame and value system"? Yes! * Consider treatment of children in Korea, where kids are forced, by their parents, to study 16 hours per day. * Consider tactics used in many resistance movements against oppressive governments in Slavic cultures (and similar tactics recently adopted by oppressed African American communities i…

I think you've confused cultures where people have a relatively high tolerance for discomfort because they consider it to be worth it (the examples you gave) and culture where people simply do not care about others' discomfort (how Stallman's colleagues describe him). All those cultures have a goal in mind when inflicting discomfort. Does Stallman?

No, I haven't. I think you deeply don't understand those cultures. Cultures usually agree on what's bad, but not on how bad it is. In my school, everyone told "yo momma" jokes. I've also been in countries where insulting your mom would lead to a fist fight, and I'd be considered in the wrong for making the joke (and not the other person for punching me). How bad is a fist fight? How bad is a "yo momma" joke? It depends on your culture.

Yes, making someone feel uncomfortable is considered bad everywhere, but in many parts of the world, it's the same kind of bad as using the wrong fork to eat your salad in the US. No one cares. No one will argue it's not better than using the Right Fork, but whatever. (And yes, there are cultures where eating etiquette and ritual is super-important).

That's even true in parts of lower-class US culture. If I'm on a construction site, and there are two workers:

- One is impeccably polite, and never makes me uncomfortable

- One always helps me out in a bind; if I need a shift covered, or my family has an emergency, but goes out of their way to tease everyone

Guess who'll be preferred? It's the opposite from elite British society (which the US descends from), where I can conquer your country and exploit your people so long as I'm polite and don't lose my temper.

And yes, different types teasing and other ways of making people intentionally feel uncomfortable for NO reason are parts of many cultures, and no one cares.

As a footnote: As far as I know, Stallman does have a goal in inflicting discomfort: he is advocating for a particular set of social changes. Is that an effective way to do it? Probably not. But no one's perfect. Stallman works from first principles and kind of ignores prevailing culture.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#942
post #367
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just neurodivergence, but its that he recognizes where he jabs people and pretty much admits he doesn't care. I once had this conversation about with with ESR and I remember him saying "RMS doesn't care about the 'social overhead' of most person to person interactions" and so he kind of does his own normative preferences, thinking that because he finds them ideal, that others shouldn't be offended....but the…

> It's not just neurodivergence, but its that he recognizes where he jabs people and pretty much admits he doesn't care. This is the thing for me. Being neuroatypical and unable to follow typical social cues, or having trouble expressing thoughtfulness or care is just a fact of life. But not being thoughtful and not caring is a choice.

>neuroatypical

It feels wrong to me to squeeze this tiny little "a" in between the words 'neuro' and 'typical' that flips the combined word's meaning around. The "a" usually goes at the front of a word so that you can tell immediately that it is being negated. I know that "a" is at the front of 'typical' but that's precisely the rub since it is actually in hiding instead of at the front of the combined word.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#943
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