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Who Owns the Nile?

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21–30 of 106 posts

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#21

Egypt is not a "proper" country. It is simply a string of settlements along the banks of Nile river and its delta. Don't let the large trapezoid shape fool you. Most of that is the result of a line on the ground drawn by colonialists. If you want see a country like Egypt look at the Gambia, another country drawn along the eponymous river wholly surrounded by Senegal, another product of colonial machinations.

Or look at Canada, a string of settlements on the US border.

See also: Nevada

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#22

Egypt is not a "proper" country. It is simply a string of settlements along the banks of Nile river and its delta. Don't let the large trapezoid shape fool you. Most of that is the result of a line on the ground drawn by colonialists. If you want see a country like Egypt look at the Gambia, another country drawn along the eponymous river wholly surrounded by Senegal, another product of colonial machinations.

I seem to recall the US is also the result of lines in the ground drawn by colonialists.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#23
post #4

It's crazy that Great Britain was even ever involved in a treaty related to this.

There's generally been a long-standing division between two polities, one controlling the upper Nile (modern-day Sudan/South Sudan) and one controlling the lower Nile (modern-day Egypt), although note the boundary between the two of them has shifted over the millennia.

The Islamic caliphate conquered the lower Nile from the Byzantines in their initial expansion, but failed to make progress on the upper Nile, leading the region to remain Christian. The Ottomans eventually displaced the rump states of the caliphate as the rulers of Egypt, but made essentially no progress again pushing south into Sudan. However, the governor of Egypt eventually went on a campaign and actually managed to conquer Sudan and it held for a couple of decades later. But then Sudan had a successful rebellion against Egyptian rule, so the Egyptian governor asked the British (who had by that time invaded and colonized Egypt, even though it was still legally part of the Ottoman Empire) to help him reconquering Sudan. This was successful, leading to Sudan becoming effectively a British colony under nominal Egyptian (but not nominally Ottoman, unlike actual Egypt) sovereignty [1].

That's how Britain acquired Egypt and Sudan. By the time of the first treaty, of course, the Ottoman Empire was carved up for good and Egypt became a clear British protectorate and Sudan a clear joint-British/English condominium. That's why Britain was involved. One of Britain's goals in ruling Sudan was to prevent it from becoming an extension of the Egyptian state, and the first treaty was an instrument to that end (by requiring Sudan to provide Egypt with a reliable supply of water, it's less necessary for Egypt to actually physically control Sudan).

[1] Yes, trying to figure out the actual boundaries of the Ottoman Empire were in its last century of existence is an exercise in frustration.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#24
post #2

I know how it will work. Most likely nothing will happen. Egyptian regime is very fragile, and will not risk a foreign intervention while having to suppress monthly uprisings back home.

Water is life or death. So they might have to try it. Go block oil extraction in the Arab world and USA will be all over you...national interest.

Not anymore. The US is an oil exporting nation now.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#25
post #6
post #2

I know how it will work. Most likely nothing will happen. Egyptian regime is very fragile, and will not risk a foreign intervention while having to suppress monthly uprisings back home.

The crisis of lack of water is bigger, who ever bombs the shit out of Great Renaissance Dam is going to be popular in Egypt. Egypt more than one occasion came close to doing something like that. Long story short. Who ever has better military capabilities will own the Nile. Egypt can use Suez as another piece to get Europe to accept its bombing campaign.

Egypt doesn't have the capability. Their air force has too little range and too little refueling capability.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#26

Egypt literally dies as a nation without Nile water. Uganda purchasing SU27 advanced long range fighter bombers and Egypt recently placing increased emphasis and resources on training military units(including western training efforts) responsible for upstream Nile force projection is not a coincidence. Nile resource sharing is a massive flash point. I recall glancing at an engineering report that indicated clearing/d…

and the big ass damn in Ethiopia. Given the civil war there, don't be surprised in this turning into a bigger conflict.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#27
The old colonial treaty split the waters 85-15 between Egypt and Sudan ignoring all the other African countries. This is completely unsustainable, the poor uptream countries must have their share.

Egypt just needs to use desalinization and water saving methods like other ME states.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#28
post #2

I know how it will work. Most likely nothing will happen. Egyptian regime is very fragile, and will not risk a foreign intervention while having to suppress monthly uprisings back home.

No need to intervene in the ear of 5th gen wars, especially when Ethiopia effectively has a civil war going on.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#29
post #15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crisis of lack of water is bigger, who ever bombs the shit out of Great Renaissance Dam is going to be popular in Egypt. Egypt more than one occasion came close to doing something like that. Long story short. Who ever has better military capabilities will own the Nile. Egypt can use Suez as another piece to get Europe to accept its bombing campaign.

They face retaliations with the Aswan dam. Egypt can not use Suez, because the US, Europe and Israel will intervene for sure on that particular case against Egypt and Egypt will lose for sure.

Israel will not intervene because it has a peace treaty with Egypt which is much more important than starting some stupid war on the behalf of foreign countries. Since the war with Egypt in 1956 Israel only had wars with entities which directly attacked Israel and even in 1956 there were some excuses due to attacks by the Fedayun that came from Egyptian area and to the fact that the Egyptian blockaded the entranc to the Israeli port on the red sea.

If anything they will just dig a canal or create some route from Eilat port to Ashdod port and make some profit out of the whole situation.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#30
post #27

The old colonial treaty split the waters 85-15 between Egypt and Sudan ignoring all the other African countries. This is completely unsustainable, the poor uptream countries must have their share. Egypt just needs to use desalinization and water saving methods like other ME states.

well Egypt is the downstream country in this case..
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