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CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

blog.waymo.com

41–50 of 248 posts

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a decent amount of factory automation that is essentially fully autonomous with the exception of a “big red emergency shutdown” button for a human to press if all the other safeties fail. Many operate without continuous oversight and in the cases where a human is positioned to watch its usually for economic reasons rather than safety (e.g., to stop the operation if there is a quality issue that will render th…

My understanding is that with factory automation usually it's designed to the human is not in danger (usually they aren't even present at all). Are there factories that exist that are automated in a way where the human is exposed to a potentially lethal injury?

>Are there factories that exist that are automated in a way where the human is exposed to a potentially lethal injury?

Yes, but probably to a lesser extent than driving a car. Everything has sensors that are meant to identify a risk to a human and stop whatever operation poses that risk.

E.g., there may be robots picking thousands of pounds of parts and driving them around a facility but they stop if they sense a human a their path. Same for welding, stamping, etc. All those operations can injure or kill but unlike vehicles they can rely on the mitigation of “stop and wait”. It’s a much easier problem than self-driving

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I think this is just the usual goal post moving, if a machine does it then we decide it wasn't really dangerous for a machine to do it. Garmin Autoland will take a plane which is otherwise working and is in the sky and put it back on the ground because the pilot has a problem (e.g. your plane nut husband finally has another stroke† while…

> I think this is just the usual goal post moving, if a machine does it then we decide it wasn't really dangerous for a machine to do it. I strongly disagree. Most machines are not capable of killing you because it makes a mistake. Do you have an example of something humans did that could kill them that was automated completely that still can kill them, but generally does not anymore? An elevator is one example, but…

Fully automated train systems? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_train_system...

Not nearly as complex a problem as self driving cars, but I'd still rather not get hit by a train

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#43
post #33

That's sad. I must be the only one who thinks full self driving will not happen before year 2100. Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I cannot think of a single thing. At best things are partially automated and need humans still. The thing is, if you have "partial" self driving, you might as well just drive yourself IMHO. The consequence of being wrong with a car is literally…

I think there's a crucial issue with sensoring. Companies are tackling the problem mainly using sensors that are contained within the car. Even with LIDAR (and not just cameras) it is very hard to "sense" the full scene[1]. What if our roads were built to communicate with the cars? What if there were only AVs on the street and they communicated with each other? What if every bicycle, school backpack, shopping cart di…

> What if every bicycle, school backpack, shopping cart did so too, identifying itself in the process?

That sounds like a nazi-state dream - easily track every backpack, car, bicycle, etc...

no thank you

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#44

That's sad. I must be the only one who thinks full self driving will not happen before year 2100. Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I cannot think of a single thing. At best things are partially automated and need humans still. The thing is, if you have "partial" self driving, you might as well just drive yourself IMHO. The consequence of being wrong with a car is literally…

A interesting analogy is the Washington DC Metro, which was automated but now isn't due to a significant accident in 2009 which killed 9 people. That's a train on rails. We have much less tolerance for computers killing people compared to people killing people.

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#45

"To start, I’m looking forward to a refresh period, reconnecting with old friends and family, and discovering new parts of the world." I suppose that is a nice way of saying wait out my non-compete....

Is Waymo not headquartered in California?

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#46

That's sad. I must be the only one who thinks full self driving will not happen before year 2100. Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I cannot think of a single thing. At best things are partially automated and need humans still. The thing is, if you have "partial" self driving, you might as well just drive yourself IMHO. The consequence of being wrong with a car is literally…

> Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous?

Monorail trains (like at the airport)

Combine Harvesters

Airplane Autopilot/autoland

Elevators

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#47
post #33

That's sad. I must be the only one who thinks full self driving will not happen before year 2100. Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I cannot think of a single thing. At best things are partially automated and need humans still. The thing is, if you have "partial" self driving, you might as well just drive yourself IMHO. The consequence of being wrong with a car is literally…

I think there's a crucial issue with sensoring. Companies are tackling the problem mainly using sensors that are contained within the car. Even with LIDAR (and not just cameras) it is very hard to "sense" the full scene[1]. What if our roads were built to communicate with the cars? What if there were only AVs on the street and they communicated with each other? What if every bicycle, school backpack, shopping cart di…

That's a really good idea. You probably wouldn't need too many sensors either. Now that I think about it, a few strategically placed cameras around blind conrners woul be pretty useful for human drivers too!

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#48

That's sad. I must be the only one who thinks full self driving will not happen before year 2100. Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I cannot think of a single thing. At best things are partially automated and need humans still. The thing is, if you have "partial" self driving, you might as well just drive yourself IMHO. The consequence of being wrong with a car is literally…

> Is there an example of anything that's completely automated that's dangerous? I think this is just the usual goal post moving, if a machine does it then we decide it wasn't really dangerous for a machine to do it. Garmin Autoland will take a plane which is otherwise working and is in the sky and put it back on the ground because the pilot has a problem (e.g. your plane nut husband finally has another stroke† while…

> I think this is just the usual goal post moving, if a machine does it then we decide it wasn't really dangerous for a machine to do it.

I've seen a lot of goalpost moving in the other direction on this one, to be honest - Self Driving Cars started as "never have an accident again!" and have slowly migrated to "look, you suck at driving, the robot sucks less, so stop bitching when the robot runs over grandma"

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#49

This combined with the recent announcement of Waymo pivoting to monetize their research in what's basically a garage sale ( https://waymo.com/lidar ) tells me that Waymo is soon to be interred on killedbygoogle.com.

That lidar has been for sale for years, it's not really a pivot. See e.g. this older post on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19319233

Re: CEO of Waymo John Krafcik is leaving

#50
Some comments are saying self-driving cars are not currently possible and that Waymo isn't successful, but aren't they currently available to the public in some areas in Phoenix, with no safety drivers?

There may be many limitations, but self-driving in sunny flat suburban areas would already cover a decent portion of the American market. Sure they might not be ready for chaotic, busy city centres or regions with harsh weather conditions, but that's letting perfect be enemy of the good - those living in areas suitable for self-driving cars would certainly appreciate them, and who's to say there can't be a gradual retooling of infrastructure to accommodate them as they expand to more and more areas?

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