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Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

theguardian.com

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Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#21

Post by gxqoz »

Tarsul wrote: post #5

what I find to be even more astonishing: "and about one in eight had died", so 1/8 of those who were in hospital for covid AND discharged afterwards, died within 4 months. We also had another article in the guardian that said that 1 million of people in the UK suffer from long covid ("Symptoms vary but include fatigue, muscle pain and difficulty concentrating."): https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/01/long-c…

I've seen some pushback that a lot of hard-to-diagnose chronic syndromes are now being deemed "long covid." My assumption is that at least some of this is happening as it's the trendiest disease of the moment. Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#22

Post by sokoloff »

azakai wrote: post #19
sokoloff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what they attempt to focus on, but inadvertently introduce bias in terms of people’s proclivity to show up at the hospital for any given severity of issue. People who present once for one thing are probably more likely to present a second time: either because they have a lower threshold for seeking help, they have overall poorer health and so present more often, or because they have a referring primary doctor…

That's a fair point. That could inflate the later admission numbers. However, I don't think it can explain the far higher death rate.

The poorer general health one it seems would have a bias towards all-cause mortality rate, though perhaps not to the full magnitude as observed.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#23

Post by JulianMorrison »

gxqoz wrote: post #21
Tarsul wrote: post #5

what I find to be even more astonishing: "and about one in eight had died", so 1/8 of those who were in hospital for covid AND discharged afterwards, died within 4 months. We also had another article in the guardian that said that 1 million of people in the UK suffer from long covid ("Symptoms vary but include fatigue, muscle pain and difficulty concentrating."): https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/01/long-c…

I've seen some pushback that a lot of hard-to-diagnose chronic syndromes are now being deemed "long covid." My assumption is that at least some of this is happening as it's the trendiest disease of the moment. Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes.

It looks like there's an overlap with post-viral syndromes and chronic fatigue syndrome, pointing to a common etiology under the hood.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#24

Post by howinteresting »

gxqoz wrote: post #21
Tarsul wrote: post #5

what I find to be even more astonishing: "and about one in eight had died", so 1/8 of those who were in hospital for covid AND discharged afterwards, died within 4 months. We also had another article in the guardian that said that 1 million of people in the UK suffer from long covid ("Symptoms vary but include fatigue, muscle pain and difficulty concentrating."): https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/01/long-c…

I've seen some pushback that a lot of hard-to-diagnose chronic syndromes are now being deemed "long covid." My assumption is that at least some of this is happening as it's the trendiest disease of the moment. Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes.

Or maybe, people have been dealing with post-viral syndromes for a long time, our society is completely unequipped to understand and deal with them, and they see post-COVID syndrome as finally a chance to address this.

But taking that perspective requires correcting for the systematic underweighting of the testimonial evidence of patients of chronic illnesses.

Less trendiness, more empathy, please.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#25

Post by peytn »

azakai wrote: post #14
peytn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not matching for hospital admission status is a pretty big factor given the bold, highly publicized top-line numbers: > We selected controls from the general population rather than matching to non-covid hospital admissions to determine the increased risk after hospital admission for covid-19 versus no hospital admission for covid-19 (that is, compared with the expected risk for people with similar personal and clinic…

(I disagree, see discussion above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26672461 )

Essentially any contact with a hospital in that population produces eye-popping statistics. Having worked in this area, I’m of the opinion that the presentation of this work is misleading.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#26

Post by azakai »

sokoloff wrote: post #22
azakai wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point. That could inflate the later admission numbers. However, I don't think it can explain the far higher death rate.

The poorer general health one it seems would have a bias towards all-cause mortality rate, though perhaps not to the full magnitude as observed.

Possibly. But poorer general health is something they explicitly tried to account for with the control group, at least.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#27

Post by atoav »

gxqoz wrote: post #21
Tarsul wrote: post #5

what I find to be even more astonishing: "and about one in eight had died", so 1/8 of those who were in hospital for covid AND discharged afterwards, died within 4 months. We also had another article in the guardian that said that 1 million of people in the UK suffer from long covid ("Symptoms vary but include fatigue, muscle pain and difficulty concentrating."): https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/01/long-c…

I've seen some pushback that a lot of hard-to-diagnose chronic syndromes are now being deemed "long covid." My assumption is that at least some of this is happening as it's the trendiest disease of the moment. Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes.

I know anecdotes are not evidence, but I knwo two personally. Both had covid and no troubles breathing before they had it. Afterwards not so much.

I am not a medical professional, but I know these people and how their bodies functioned beforehand. The way they are now is certainly not a hard-to-diagnose chronic syndrome that is unreleated to them catching the damn thing.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#28

Post by nightpool »

peytn wrote: post #20
surfpel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most useful result here is to isolate the impact of covid hospital admission status on the probability of mortality, not the difference between covid and other hospitalizations.

Anyone who’s even dipped a toe in this policy area can tell you that when old people and hospitals meet, gaudy statistics follow. It’s common knowledge in the field. To not include that context or any points of comparison seems irresponsible to me given the publicity.

The excerpt from the study quoted above says "Rate ratios were greater for individuals aged less than 70 ... with the largest differences seen for respiratory disease (10.5 (95% confidence interval 9.7 to 11.4) for age less than 70 years v 4.6 (4.3 to 4.8) for age ≥70)"

Isn't that a clear indication that there's something besides "general trends in old people" going on here?

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#29

Post by mlyle »

atoav wrote: post #27
gxqoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some pushback that a lot of hard-to-diagnose chronic syndromes are now being deemed "long covid." My assumption is that at least some of this is happening as it's the trendiest disease of the moment. Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes.

I know anecdotes are not evidence, but I knwo two personally. Both had covid and no troubles breathing before they had it. Afterwards not so much. I am not a medical professional, but I know these people and how their bodies functioned beforehand. The way they are now is certainly not a hard-to-diagnose chronic syndrome that is unreleated to them catching the damn thing.

He said: "Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes."

But, also, you'll find people with long COVID who are finally paying attention to other symptoms and ascribing them to the C-19 infection.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#30

Post by LatteLazy »

What's the usually figure for (1) patients of flu admitted to hospital, (2) patients of flu with this sort of age breakdown?

Are their unusual or particular symptoms compared to other people with long term issues after viral infections?

I full believe "long covid" is a thing. But so much of covid news has been shitty "studies" that get a lot of press despite shedding very little light and go on to be rapidly disproven but still repeated (Vit D, Chloroquinine etc).

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