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Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

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Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#31

Post by karmakaze »

mixedCase wrote: post #27
karmakaze wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be talking of Spring Framework!? That's a 2000's solution (in particular Hibernate) trying to stay relevant.

I don't disagree with your conclusion. But your comment communicates no argument against Spring and how the trade-offs it makes make it a poor option for new projects.

Anyone with sufficient experience with JPQL and Hibernate will realize their limits and how poorly it works in the latency sensitive transactions we want now. Spring and Hibernate were designed to cache domain 'entities' and manage their dirty state client-side as an optimization. Any time you go want to go near the EntityManager you're hitting this impedance mismatch.

Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#32

Post by marvinblum »

xrd wrote: post #25
marvinblum wrote: post #24

If you're looking for a simple Kubernetes alternative, take a look at the HasiCorp stack. I use that in production and it's easy to set up and maintain.

Do you have a link to an introduction?

The YouTube channel [0] has plenty of introduction videos, but I find the documentation [1] to be the best place to start. You should set up Consul (service mesh) first, followed by Nomad (orchestration), and Vault (secret management) if you need it. The only thing I initially struggled with was the systemd-resolved config on Ubuntu, to make the service discovery work. I plan to write an article about it, should I ever find the time for it :)

Btw. the cluster consists out of three servers on Hetzner [2] and runs our web analytics platform Pirsch [3].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-AdvAxaagE9W2f0webyNUQ

[1] https://learn.hashicorp.com/consul (for Consul, the pages for Nomad and Vault are similar)

[2] https://www.hetzner.com/cloud

[3] https://pirsch.io/

Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#33

Post by karmakaze »

artwr wrote: post #28
karmakaze wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be talking of Spring Framework!? That's a 2000's solution (in particular Hibernate) trying to stay relevant.

Asking to learn, but if you were to start a Java application in the following two scenarios: 1) Monolith with some CRUD, API, persistence to a DB + search. 2) Scalable backend with an API, persistence to a DB + some caching what would you use these days?

Not in any particular order (choose what fits your team): Kotlin or Java and a lighter framework (e.g. Javalin is to Spring as Sinatra is to Rails, with JDBI), a newer big framework (e.g. Micronaut, maybe Play, others), Phoenix/Elixir, Rails/Ruby+Sorbet, Go with libraries.

Edit: I just did a google search for "Java Framework" and get a lot of useless top-N lists with old content retitled "in 2020" with hits like: Hibernate (not a framework), JSF (JavaServer Faces), GWT (Google Web Toolkit), Struts (The Later Version), DropWizard (seems to have stagnated and docs are all over the place. JDBI was extracted and has a life of its own).

Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#34

Post by danpalmer »

intricatedetail wrote: post #30
danpalmer wrote: post #13

This is ~17k lines of shell scripting and claims to be "simple". Kuberentes is probably ~1m lines of Go. I'm not entirely convinced that this is less complex (simpler) than Kubernetes. There are many factors in complexity, but a big one for me is what I have to hold in my head – global state. From any given point, what do I need to understand to know what's actually going on. For Go, this is actually comparatively li…

Go has a lot of boilerplate code - simple things take many lines, so I wouldn't be too serious about 1M

Yeah that's kinda my point. Boilerplate isn't necessarily "complex" in that way. If you can ignore it that's great.

I'm not sure you can with shell scripting because of all the global system state.

Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#36

Post by motoboi »

karmakaze wrote: post #23
motoboi wrote: post #20

Kubernetes might follow the sad path of spring. Perfect, complete and too complex. For big and great applications, spring if the obvious choice. It makes incredible complex and difficult things easy. But, unfortunately, makes simple and quick applications incredible complex and difficult.

You can't be talking of Spring Framework!? That's a 2000's solution (in particular Hibernate) trying to stay relevant.

Sorry, I meant "was the obvious choice". But the sad path is exactly that. Great solution. Too complex. Oblivion.

Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#37

Post by oropolo »

verdverm wrote: post #22
mikece wrote: post #18

1. Anything that offers effective competition to Kubernetes is a Good Thing. I'm not saying this is because I haven't look at it closely enough but competition brings about improvement. 2. Why do people write "Simplenetes has a 100x less code than Kubernetes" instead of saying it has 1/100th the code?

why is that a perceived benefit By contrast, Kubernetes has at least 1000x more developers working on it

Don't you mean "1/1000th less" developers working on it?

Re: Show HN: Simplenetes – I replaced Kubernetes with 17k lines of shell script

#39

Post by pcthrowaway »

thomasbacklund wrote: post #12
pcthrowaway wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First time I'm hearing of space also. It looks quite impressive, surprised to see no stars

Thanks! We just moved Space.sh from GitLab to GitHub (hurts in my heart, but yeah community is on GitHub). Also we are lousy at promoting our stuff, maybe April 1st is not the best day to do this either...

It's OK, I'm sure more stars will start appearing in Space as visibility improves :)
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