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A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

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Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#21

Post by wffurr »

nlitened wrote: post #18
bluejekyll wrote: post #3

One of the primary features I'm holding out hope for eventually making it into the language is ValueTypes: http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jrose/values/values-0.html and the current Valhalla Project: https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/valhalla/Main The simplest example of why this would be valuable (edit: this was not an intentional pun), the Optional type could become stack based, such that you could ensure that the…

I am not sure I understand, why would you want Optional type to never be null? Isn't it being null sometimes — the whole point?

There's a big difference between the Optional containing null (useful) and the Optional itself being null (but why).

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#22

Post by matsemann »

laurent92 wrote: post #17
voidfunc wrote: post #13

Java gets a bad rap from people that used it late 90's through early 2000's and got burned out by XML and design pattern heavy frameworks but its a lovely language that with a little discipline can be used to create very lean looking code. Go is one of the HN darling languages and I work in Go everyday for work (and generally like it), but I really wish I could reach for Java most days.

“Java is a big DSL to transform XML into stacktraces” — so was the joke at the time when domain-specific languages were the hype. This, and the FizzBuzz, Enterprise Edition: https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... More seriously, what are you missing in Go that is well-done in Java? I assume verbosity of the code is still the defining characteristic of Java?

The java ecosystem is very nice. Not necessarily the language itself, but everything else. The jvm, the tools, the libraries are all very mature and good.

Skipping java and instead using Kotlin allows one to reuse all that knowledge in a great language as well.

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#23

Post by tonyarkles »

laurent92 wrote: post #17
voidfunc wrote: post #13

Java gets a bad rap from people that used it late 90's through early 2000's and got burned out by XML and design pattern heavy frameworks but its a lovely language that with a little discipline can be used to create very lean looking code. Go is one of the HN darling languages and I work in Go everyday for work (and generally like it), but I really wish I could reach for Java most days.

“Java is a big DSL to transform XML into stacktraces” — so was the joke at the time when domain-specific languages were the hype. This, and the FizzBuzz, Enterprise Edition: https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... More seriously, what are you missing in Go that is well-done in Java? I assume verbosity of the code is still the defining characteristic of Java?

Now we've got Spring, which in my, admittedly limited, experience does a great job of transforming what could have been compile-time errors into run-time errors.

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#24

Post by perrylaj »

tasogare wrote: post #12
dehrmann wrote: post #6

I'm torn over this because a lot of the features are quality of life improvements, but is it too fast?

A lot of things are coming straight from C#, so it’s battle-tested there before inclusion I guess.

As someone unfamiliar with C# but interested in how languages impact each-other, could you provide some examples? I know C# was heavily inspired (perhaps not a strong enough word) by Java, but not as familiar with the opposite.

Java does seem to absorb from tried and tested ideas. There are a few major features I can think of that have largely come from or been inspired by popular and mature 3rd party libraries (time, reactive streams and various collection apis come to mind).

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#26

Post by KptMarchewa »

jacques_chester wrote: post #14
crudbug wrote: post #8

Waiting for project loom [1] [1] https://openjdk.java.net/projects/loom/

I am unreasonably excited by Loom, for two reasons: 1. I cannot wrap my head around library-based reactive systems. I have tried and tried and continue to try. But they're like some of the original Go4 design patterns: they exist to solve the language , not the problem . Loom's promise to make steam-powered linear code behave mostly like a fully-dressed reactive library system is extremely welcome. 2. Structured conc…

What's the difference in programming model (not implementation) between Loom and goroutines?

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#27

Post by ericbarrett »

voidfunc wrote: post #13

Java gets a bad rap from people that used it late 90's through early 2000's and got burned out by XML and design pattern heavy frameworks but its a lovely language that with a little discipline can be used to create very lean looking code. Go is one of the HN darling languages and I work in Go everyday for work (and generally like it), but I really wish I could reach for Java most days.

I got burned out by endless JVM preening and devs configuring their runtime options to use 128MB in a 2GB container, or capitalizing their -Xm option wrong, or what have you. So now with cloud computing you have the JVM in a container on a virtual host, all of which have their own constraints to set—matryoshka dolls all the way down.

Like, people always say, "Well that just means they didn't know what they were doing with the JVM"—yes, and it's been a problem for two decades and is about as likely to go away as buffer overflows in C.

Honestly the thing I like about Go, Rust, C++ the most is the resultant binary just runs in userspace, and you can set the constraints there. Even Python scripts don't have to muck with the JVM.

FactoryFactoryFactoryFactory code is the least of Java's issues.

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#28

Post by voidfunc »

laurent92 wrote: post #17
voidfunc wrote: post #13

Java gets a bad rap from people that used it late 90's through early 2000's and got burned out by XML and design pattern heavy frameworks but its a lovely language that with a little discipline can be used to create very lean looking code. Go is one of the HN darling languages and I work in Go everyday for work (and generally like it), but I really wish I could reach for Java most days.

“Java is a big DSL to transform XML into stacktraces” — so was the joke at the time when domain-specific languages were the hype. This, and the FizzBuzz, Enterprise Edition: https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... More seriously, what are you missing in Go that is well-done in Java? I assume verbosity of the code is still the defining characteristic of Java?

> More seriously, what are you missing in Go that is well-done in Java?

1. Generics. And yea, I know Go is getting generics "Real Soon Now" (tm), but it is incredibly annoying to write the same collection code over and over and there's some third-party libs that would really benefit from generics (looking at you Azure Go SDK).

2. Error handling... with the big caveat that I actually like Go's error handling mechanism at small scale but wish there was a good way to chain several operations together and return an error to the top if any failed... I find myself writing a lot of `err != nil` checks in sequence and I've found baking my own abstractions around this to be leaky or difficult to grow as the program requirements change.

3. Diverse collections API.

4. Iterators.

5. Not Java-the-language but the JVM has amazing monitoring tools.

> I assume verbosity of the code is still the defining characteristic of Java?

Pound for pound... I think Go and Java have about the same verbosity. I'm honestly never quite sure what people mean by "verbosity" in Java. Generally I interpret this as "frameworks" but I predicated my OP on the idea that legacy framework bloat is where most of people's frustration with Java lies... not the language itself.

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#29

Post by dlbucci »

All the backend projects I work on were originally written in Java. I'll admit that Streams and Lombok make it a somewhat pleasant experience to work with, at least compared to when I used it in college (I think Java 8 was newest?).

But that said, I once tried writing a new feature in Kotlin, and now all our code is Kotlin. I don't really see how Java can compete with the non-nullable types, data classes, and type-inferencing Kotlin gives you, with easy interoperability, to boot! (Although you might start regretting your use of Lombok at that point...)

Re: A categorized list of all Java and JVM features since JDK 8 to 16

#30

Post by layer8 »

bluejekyll wrote: post #3

One of the primary features I'm holding out hope for eventually making it into the language is ValueTypes: http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jrose/values/values-0.html and the current Valhalla Project: https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/valhalla/Main The simplest example of why this would be valuable (edit: this was not an intentional pun), the Optional type could become stack based, such that you could ensure that the…

Even more useful will be a Mandatory type. Maybe with “T!” and implicit conversion to T as syntactic sugar.

Edit: Unfortunately it would have the drawback of nonoverloadability due to type erasure.

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