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Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

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Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#241
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I could, I'd usually choose the lowest stress route! Apple Maps sometimes features alternate routes that are "simpler" or with "fewer turns", which I think is a very nice feature. I'd rather not cut through small side streets just to save 1-2 minutes.

I almost always take the simpler route, especially in areas I’m not familiar with. It’s a very nice quality of life feature that doesn’t get mentioned much.

I haven't heard it mentioned often as a nice feature. However, it used to be a regular complaint from people I know that GPS would send you on awkward routes through tiny streets with many turns. That's something I haven't heard in a while.

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#242
post #231

I am surprised that no one mentioned www.abetterrouteplanner.com yet, which is EV-oriented and takes into account not only charging stations (and their power output), but also elevation changes to account for regen filling up the battery and providing increased range. Also has an in-car mode that is somewhat usable for cars that have an integrated web browser with access to location data.

As someone that's renting a EV for a few months, I quickly realized GMaps was kinda useless in actually planning longer trips. ABRP has worked very well for me, and given me peace of mind when planning long trips over the mountains in winter times.

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#244

This is the opposite of a map. A map helps you build a mental model for how you navigate space by showing you a broad view of the land, potentially enabling you to navigate to anywhere. This offloads the effort of learning, such that you don’t learn to navigate the space yourself, and only gets you from one point to another.

Exactly, I feel the title should be more "Redefining what Google Maps® can be with new information". And as you noted, this app is not really a map.

Regardless of the semantic shift that there is probably no way to stop now, I'm hoping real maps will still be around, they are the best tool to give you spacial awareness at different scales.

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#245
Driving with low carbon emission can only mean driving with a speed that is (much) smaller then the allowed maximum speed outside of cities. E.g. 80km/h (or even 70) instead of the allowed 100km/h in Germany. This way I can reduce my fuel consumption by at least 30%.

With Google Maps driving and reaching the ETA is very stressful (and burns a lot of gas) as you often have to "max out" the speed limits. I guess the AI that is used is based on the average person that drives like this and/or does not care about the speed limits (which is the case here in Germany). And so I doubt that anything ecologically can come out of an AI that is based on the current state. To change something you would have to assist people how to reduce fuel consumption.

This would have many advantages: it would reduce stress and accidents (people would be less willing to overtake a 'slower' car) and the time of arrival would be only 2-4 minutes later on a 1 hour trip.

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#246
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole thing reads like PR BS to me. Touting AI as a cure-all to make up for getting bashed about it lately.

What about this is AI? This is all perfectly doable with "classical" algorithms.

> What about this is AI?

The PR Title - "Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI". And the PR last line - "All of these updates are possible thanks to AI advancements"

And that might be it.

> "classical" algorithms

They probably just need to change a constant on the time to tell the user to change lanes and they'd make a difference on screw ups.

The fact Apple now says "sorry" when it makes a mistake is quite clever, it's a quick word to stop confusion for repeated instructions.

I do think the voice on maps needs work, and it matters. Text to Voice might be 'AI'

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#247

Driving with low carbon emission can only mean driving with a speed that is (much) smaller then the allowed maximum speed outside of cities. E.g. 80km/h (or even 70) instead of the allowed 100km/h in Germany. This way I can reduce my fuel consumption by at least 30%. With Google Maps driving and reaching the ETA is very stressful (and burns a lot of gas) as you often have to "max out" the speed limits. I guess the AI…

When you calculate the shortest path in a road network, you usually take the distance and divide it by the speed limit to determine the weight of the edges.

To be fancy you also do things like account for deceleration and acceleration at nodes (turns).

Artificially capping the speed limit is easy. You often do this for things like tractors that don't drive at the speed limit.

If people want to drive under a certain speed it's a trivial technical problems for the individual vehicle and path finding.

I'm not sure the calculations are made individually however, so an individual speed limit may be a non trivial problem

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#248
post #218
post #132

About time! I've been complaining to google for years about it aggressively recommending and rerouting onto a 20+ mile long detour around the east bay to save a minute by its own estimation (but probably lose several minutes much of the time, in reality). I also filed complaints with CARB and the state legislature because google was unresponsive.

Extra 20 miles and shorter by a minute : I'd guess the other route is a hell to drive. Bad roads / congestion / stoplights / low speed limits/ etc

We've accidentally conducted the experiment multiple times-- heading from northern Marin into SF with visitors in another car and failed to tell them to ignore the google 'faster route' -- they arrive much later after detouring through the east bay and getting stuck in traffic coming down to the bay bridge or inside SF.

I have no idea how Maps estimation works, but it's easy to imagine that it could make a decision based on a brief delay that will likely have cleared before you arrived, while the path it suggested congested ahead of you.

Even if they even managed to accurately give a solution that was correct in the expectation, a much longer route is almost always going to have a much higher 95th percentile time (unless the shorter route has a train or drawbridge or similar).

If given a choice between of an alternative that would be 1 minute faster on average but never more than 2 minutes faster and 5% of the time you're advised to use it it's actually >30 minutes slower-- which would you take?

But I doubt they're particularly accurate in terms of the expectation in any case-- at least not relative to traffic driven 1 minute differences.

Aside, I drive a stick, so I don't especially love stop and go-- but Maps has done far worse to me in an effort to avoid some stop and go on an arterial road, e.g. sending me off onto extremely hilly residential streets clogged with other drivers, leaving me chirping the tires to avoid rolling into the bumpers behind me in the Maps congo line.

It's better to be in congestion on a road that was designed for it than to still be in congestion on some detour in an area where the roads weren't designed for heavy through traffic.

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#249

This is the opposite of a map. A map helps you build a mental model for how you navigate space by showing you a broad view of the land, potentially enabling you to navigate to anywhere. This offloads the effort of learning, such that you don’t learn to navigate the space yourself, and only gets you from one point to another.

You are right, but most people want navigational aid, not map. Maps were popular because they were good navigational aid, not because they help building mental model. If better navigational aid becomes available, most people will gladly abandon map's mental model building feature.

Disagree. A navigational aid such as Google Maps is only good as long as you know your exact destination in advance. If for some reason you can't, or you need to orient yourself in an area, or even understand the route you're on, or - God forbid - plan a trip involving multiple destinations - Google Maps is incredibly hard to use.

Re: Redefining what a map can be with new information and AI

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I could, I'd usually choose the lowest stress route! Apple Maps sometimes features alternate routes that are "simpler" or with "fewer turns", which I think is a very nice feature. I'd rather not cut through small side streets just to save 1-2 minutes.

Ironically, if there were a feature that only cut through small side streets and avoided larger streets, I'd use that all the time!

Thanks for ruining residential streets and making it more dangerous for children to play where they live!
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