Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#11

Post by Tade0 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:27 AM UTC

keenreed wrote: post #2

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

Coming from a country where, comparing to Japan:

-Suicide rates are roughly the same.

-Fertility rate was actually lower for a time - currently slightly higher.

-People work considerably more hours per annum.

-Average apartment sizes are lower.

I take such statistics with a grain of salt.

I think that currently they aren't significantly different in this regard than the rest of the developed world.

My anecdata from southern and eastern Europe says that things like stable employment and housing are hard to come by among the Ys and Zs and these are both major hurdles towards starting a family.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#12

Post by Iv » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:28 AM UTC

One thing that surprised me coming to live in countryside Japan is that everybody is part of the "kumi" hierarchical structure. They are neighborhood assemblies, so 10-20 persons in my area, with a president and a budget. The kumi bosses elect a boss for their super-kumi (forgot the name of that) and it is hierarchical up to the city level.

They meet regularly to discuss local events, repairs, but mostly the matsuri (summer festival) and the bonenkai (the booze event of the end of the year). But they are also the ones who tell you who to support for elections. This year the local kumicho (head of kumi) came to give us leaflets for a city hall candidate, which surprised me because I know he dislikes the guy. But the boss of the "super-kumi" supports him so he gave lip-service to that. Knowing that this is the supported candidate by the local kumis will win a lot of local voters.

Another thing to understand is that seniority is very respected in Japan. I have seen a 63 yo man defer to a 65 yo because he was his "sempai". I don;t know if all the kumis are like that but ours is pretty much based on the assumption that the elder can boss around the younger.

That can explain why the conservative party is so well entrenched.

People polled in that article claim that they base their appreciation on managerial qualities and personal advantage, but from what I have seen, they get these opinions from their own social environment.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#13

Post by redis_mlc » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:28 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #7

keenreed wrote: post #2

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

[dead]

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#14

Post by mpweiher » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:31 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #10

rualca wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terribly short-sighted to try to portray a whole society on it's economic growth rate. From that nonsense, it becomes even more foolish to assert that Japan (a G8 nation and the 3rd largest economy in the world) is not "functional" by focusing exclusively on it's economy.

There's nothing in GP that suggested they were referring to the economy specifically: the population has been in decline for some time, and many parts of the country are losing tax revenues.

We need populations to at the very least stagnate, decline is also not a bad idea.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#15

Post by barry-cotter » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:31 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #7

keenreed wrote: post #2

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

Please expand. Japan is much, much poorer. The work environment is awful in at least two different ways, dualisation and insane levels of presenteeism. It’s quite sexist by European or US standards. What makes Japan look good?

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#16

Post by rualca » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:33 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #10

rualca wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terribly short-sighted to try to portray a whole society on it's economic growth rate. From that nonsense, it becomes even more foolish to assert that Japan (a G8 nation and the 3rd largest economy in the world) is not "functional" by focusing exclusively on it's economy.

There's nothing in GP that suggested they were referring to the economy specifically: the population has been in decline for some time, and many parts of the country are losing tax revenues.

You start your comment by claiming GP's comment regarding a stagnant nation might not have anything to do with economics, but your supposedly counterexample, tax revenue, is about it's economy, isn't it?

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#17

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:35 AM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #14

sneak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing in GP that suggested they were referring to the economy specifically: the population has been in decline for some time, and many parts of the country are losing tax revenues.

We need populations to at the very least stagnate, decline is also not a bad idea.

[deleted]

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#18

Post by sneak » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

rualca wrote: post #16

sneak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing in GP that suggested they were referring to the economy specifically: the population has been in decline for some time, and many parts of the country are losing tax revenues.

You start your comment by claiming GP's comment regarding a stagnant nation might not have anything to do with economics, but your supposedly counterexample, tax revenue, is about it's economy, isn't it?

No, tax revenue decline is only one facet of a declining population. A decline in population causes many other things that are dependent upon human beings to also decline: social interaction, art production, and a bunch of other stuff you might file under "economy": tax revenues, jobs, new businesses, new research, et c.

Taking a purely economic view of these things is to misunderstand what is happening. Sure, it's an economic stagnation/downturn when new jobs aren't created, but more important than the money is the loss of the things those jobs produced in society outside of their economic impact: tools, art, research, creativity.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#19

Post by rualca » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #15

atoav wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

Please expand. Japan is much, much poorer. The work environment is awful in at least two different ways, dualisation and insane levels of presenteeism. It’s quite sexist by European or US standards. What makes Japan look good?

The US's appalling lack of basic social safety nets, specially regarding healthcare, coupled with its poverty rate (over twice of Brazil's) and violence epidemic don't make it a shining beacon of a functioning society.

Just because STEM graduates in the US can aspire to live in a comfort bubble due to their access to a cushy job, that does not make it an example of a well-functioning society by no means.

It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life.

Re: Building a Functional One-Party Democracy (2019)

#20

Post by Iv » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:48 AM UTC

Iv wrote: post #12

One thing that surprised me coming to live in countryside Japan is that everybody is part of the "kumi" hierarchical structure. They are neighborhood assemblies, so 10-20 persons in my area, with a president and a budget. The kumi bosses elect a boss for their super-kumi (forgot the name of that) and it is hierarchical up to the city level. They meet regularly to discuss local events, repairs, but mostly the matsuri…

Hah, trying to find the name of the "super-kumi" I learned that this terminology is known in the west for being used by Yakuza. It makes sense, organizing the matsuri, which involves finding young men for carrying the mikoshi (a heavy palanquin you have to carry around) must be an excellent way to recruit people straying away.