[flagged]
The Disintegration of the ACLU
31–38 of 38 posts
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article quotes the guy who led the ACLU from 1978 to 2001: > My successor, and the board of directors that have supported him, have basically tried to transform the organization from a politically neutral, nonpartisan civil liberties organization into a progressive liberal organization You are of course not obligated to agree. But acting like it's just the author sharing his funny opinions seems a bit disingenuou…
Is trans rights progressive? This seems to be one of his big objections to the current ACLU. ACLU used to advocate for gay and lesbian rights. At the time it was viewed by conservatives as a bad thing generally. But now it is accepted and seems like they were on the right side of history. I feel that trans rights is basically the same thing as gay and lesbian rights were previously. Not widely popular but important t…
The ACLU supported gay and lesbian rights when the government was trying to restrict the rights of gays and lesbians.
It didn't talk about censoring books that were critical of gays and lesbians. Which would trample the rights not of the gays and lesbians but of the homophobic writer.
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#33[flagged]
[deleted]
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
They do seem surprised that "groups most frequently harassed, most frequently support limits on harassment".
Historically, countries that have outlawed speech have outlawed “talking about being gay” far more often than “harassing gay people”. I suspect it’s a unique form of madness that assumes that if you open the door to outlawing speech in America, then future Trumps and Pences and Bushes of the world will refrain from such a thing out of the kindness of their hearts.
Historically, countries that have valued free speech (the US and much of Western Europe) have not had a great track record of actually extending those legal protections to truly unpopular speech, either.
The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free speech.
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Historically, countries that have outlawed speech have outlawed “talking about being gay” far more often than “harassing gay people”. I suspect it’s a unique form of madness that assumes that if you open the door to outlawing speech in America, then future Trumps and Pences and Bushes of the world will refrain from such a thing out of the kindness of their hearts.
Historically, countries that have valued free speech (the US and much of Western Europe) have not had a great track record of actually extending those legal protections to truly unpopular speech, either. The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free sp…
We really need to not throw bricks at cop cars. It doesn't attract additional support, and it's easily co-opted to spread a false narrative that it's only about violence. There are plenty of agents provocateurs happy to throw bricks and then point fingers at others.
It's certainly true that we also must not give in to BS abstractions about the virtue of free speech to solve all ills. That's also a tactic used to silence people, forcing them into quieter and quieter protests while falsely portraying them as violent. We can't completely wrap ourselves up when we know that they that they're just going to lie about it.
That's a hard line to walk, but calling for violence is clearly over it.
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#36"And unlike the 1970s, when the ACLU was run by stubbornly principled people who refused to buckle under the weight of fashionable opinion or donor pressure, the new generation of leaders prioritized conformism over intellectual consistency." That's a problem. The huge pressure for conformity. Both Left and Right are way too insistent on this. The Left now insists on gender concepts that were considered totally wacko…
Is there any major trend of cancellation for not liking trump /hating trump? The media in generally drowned in its pretty left aligned, so I haven't heard much of that.
You can also get censured by your state/local GOP. See https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/06/liz-cheney-c...
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Historically, countries that have outlawed speech have outlawed “talking about being gay” far more often than “harassing gay people”. I suspect it’s a unique form of madness that assumes that if you open the door to outlawing speech in America, then future Trumps and Pences and Bushes of the world will refrain from such a thing out of the kindness of their hearts.
Historically, countries that have valued free speech (the US and much of Western Europe) have not had a great track record of actually extending those legal protections to truly unpopular speech, either. The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free sp…
> The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free speech.
If there's enough civil unrest then it's much easier for a law-and-order candidate like Nixon to win votes; I'm expecting this to happen in the next election.
Re: The Disintegration of the ACLU
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Historically, countries that have valued free speech (the US and much of Western Europe) have not had a great track record of actually extending those legal protections to truly unpopular speech, either. The way to make sure you have the right to talk about people being gay is to fight for those rights by throwing bricks at cop cars, not to trust a bunch of think tanks who say they value the abstract ideal of free sp…
We really need to not throw bricks at cop cars. It doesn't attract additional support, and it's easily co-opted to spread a false narrative that it's only about violence. There are plenty of agents provocateurs happy to throw bricks and then point fingers at others. It's certainly true that we also must not give in to BS abstractions about the virtue of free speech to solve all ills. That's also a tactic used to sile…
... I'm referencing the actual historical event that is celebrated (by all the world's major corporations, now) as Pride. Is your claim that this event did not attract additional support and was ill-advised?
Violence works, and I hope you don't mean that calling for violence is over the "line" of acceptable free speech - where would America be without writings that called for violence?