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Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

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Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#411

Post by hntroll666 »

cronix wrote: post #282
retsibsi wrote: post #9

This seems rather user-hostile. The downvote count is useful for identifying videos that aren't what they claim to be. And how about DIY videos that give terrible advice? A big downvote ratio will get most people's attention in a way that critical comments may not.

Look at the downvotes of this channel. Just pick any video since Jan. It's around 4:1 dislikes to likes. You can bet this is why they're doing it. https://www.youtube.com/c/WhiteHouse/videos

It's actually much worse than 4:1. YouTube is often hiding upwards of 90% of the dislikes. Like another poster noted, you can see it on https://81m.org/ .

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#412

Post by qq4 »

What's next, getting rid of comments? I use YouTube less and less these days, but I have to say that the dislike button tends to hold more utility than the great swathes of garbage comments. Not that I'm advocating for getting rid of comments, but I see plenty of disliking within them.

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#413

Post by markdown »

EricE wrote: post #306
retsibsi wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, I'm trying not to dismiss your perspective just because it sounds a bit conspiratorial, but this is not convincing. Are you saying the YouTube execs (or whoever is leaning on them) are just acting emotionally with no strategy?

There is absolutely a strategy - there is a particular point of view they favor, and anything counter to it is removed. Dislikes are embarrassing to, for lack of better terminology, their pet causes. Simply disabling them on certain videos or channels calls even more attention to them - so why not just remove them entirely. The only thing surprising to me is that it took them this long.

What a silly conspiracy theory. If the wanted to hide embarrassing downvotes on certain videos, they'd just remove those downvotes, not the entire feature.

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#414

Post by WillPostForFood »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #246
bobthechef wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ultimate admission the only way they can spread their messaging is through force, not honest competition of ideas. How superior. > Nothing proves you have a worthy argument better than outright hiding from dissent. I don't know the general trends across YouTube or why they would do this. Certainly, they've also been silencing views they and certain influential groups advising them don't like, and I've seen vide…

> downvoting of "preferred" YouTube content has gotten so severe that the company wishes to prevent the communication of exactly how much disapproval there really is for the "official narrative" This is exact reason. Go to you tube home page and every day there is bar of "official sources" news on coronavirus (clips from news stations). Here are first four for this day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USE5USAodiI htt…

There is a political angle as well. Official Whitehouse videos have been getting 10x the downvotes as upvotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynG4j-BsRhI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBpYZnmPz3Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16p2PcPgB5M

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#415

Post by water8 »

pessimizer wrote: post #287
bjourne wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the point! Yours and others' belief that down voting is a mean to register dissent. Since dissent is orthogonal to quality down votes no longer indicate lack of quality. Thus the metric becomes meaningless. In fact, if Google and other tech companies were to continue using down votes to measure quality, the end result would be strengthening the majority's echo chamber. Suppose there is a YouTube channel ab…

> dissent is orthogonal to quality If you said 2 + 2 = 5, I would disagree. This is a trivial example of dissent completely entangled with quality.

I agree. How else are we to measure the subjectivity of “quality” if not by approval or disapproval of people?

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#416

Post by raynr »

Title is misleading. YouTube is testing removing the ability for viewers to see the dislikes. Video owners can still see the dislikes.

I am skeptical about this design change fixing the stated concern, which is creator "well-being". If good faith creators can still see the dislike count, they will still feel miserable. Anyway, if you are putting yourself out there, other people taking a dump on you is part of the deal, because other people... you know, exist. If creator well-being is a concern, Google should focus on preventing or minimising actual harassment campaigns instead of these minimal design changes.

The design change also assumes that all creators are good faith actors whose well-being ought to be managed, which is impossibly idealistic. If there is a way for bad faith actors to benefit at the cost of good faith actors, they will exploit that, and the good faith actors will lose ground over the long term.

It also ignores that dislikes can be given for many reasons, hiding valuable screening information from the viewer. It should not be up to Google to hide this info and finesse their recommendation engine behind the scenes to serve relevant videos. Google would optimize for views, not the content in the video.

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#417

Post by water8 »

viraptor wrote: post #234
gnarbarian wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube was a free speech platform only as long as it took to establish dominance. Now it's just another corporate megaphone with an inconvenient independent creator problem they are slowly solving by making it an intolerable place to have dissenting opinions. Can't question the election, can't question coronavirus. Big Google decides what is acceptable and keeps the rules and process vague, inscrutable, and opaque s…

WH disabling comments on its videos is not against free speech. It's not about allowing you to shout about your issues wherever you want with everyone having to see it. Disabling comments on official communication is a good move whether it's gov or private company announcements. They won't have to deal with some top upvoted comment with: incorrect summary, incorrect restatement of something, abuse at the account or o…

Let’s cut the BS. It’s about not looking bad. Its that simple

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#418

Post by cwhiz »

cwhiz wrote: post #372

Love it. The dislike, down arrow, and other such options just serve to give the mob an opportunity to bury things they don’t like. I wish HN would get rid of the downvote.

Case in point, this dissenting opinion. Proving the point

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#419

Post by fuzxi »

ciex wrote: post #105
Hammershaft wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Youtube is removing dislikes because of white house vids that average out less than ~25000 views each?

They are removing dislikes because dislikes bring negativity to the YouTube space. Imagine what getting dislikes feels like when you have put your heart into a video. People expressing their disapproval without a qualifying comment is not constructive.

Then you can choose to disable public vote visibility. That's been available to uploaders for years. Of course, channels that produce good content generally don't do that, because their vote ratios are evidence of their quality.

Re: Testing a few new designs that don't show the public dislike count

#420

Post by justAnIdea »

mrzimmerman wrote: post #378
shuntress wrote: post #351

What is going on in the comments to this article? Why has this relatively minor youtube feature change dredged up such significant vitriol and conspiracy-adjacent rhetoric in the hacker news comments? Skimming all the comments here I'm seeing lots of flaming and hand-wringing. I don't have any actual measures, but to me it feels like significantly more than normal even for an article about a high-profile site/company…

What bothers me is that the title is even a little misleading. They're removing the count of dislikes (which obviously has an impact) but the dislike feature itself is still there.

The like/dislike feature IS NOT for the creator. Whatever Youtube claims now, the ratio always served as an indicator to other users of the platform first, feedback to the creator second. Not to mention that the way you say "i mean, you can still click a button" is incredibly elitist, dismissive and undemocratic. Having a dislike feature without publicly showing the ratio is a political equivalent of saying "Well we can't have these bottom feeders voting on something and seeing the results. We'll let them vote, sure, but then dupm the ballots into a landfill."... Anyways I'm pretty sure all this pleading to democracy and freedom will fall on deaf ears since the powers that control the US government and big tech (and I don't mean the democrats, I mean the progressives) are obsessed with control and limiting speech. I don't doubt some of these people even think dislikes are disinfo campaigns probably done by Trump voters (which is kinda implied in the tweet) and thus need to be erased from the record.
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