Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#51

Post by regularfry » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #4

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

It's not an unreasonable assumption that innovation, specifically, thrives in a face-to-face environment, because the opportunities for random circumstantial collisions of ideas are higher by default. That would explain the emphasis on office-based work without appealing to the terribleness of management. For most companies, most of the time, though, that's not what matters, no matter how much they might wax lyrical about it.

What most companies need most of is competent execution of ideas they already have, and that's perfectly possible in a fully-remote setting in a large proportion of orgs.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#52

Post by Redwing1010 » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

Interesting to contrast it with the other big Seattle tech employer's, Microsoft, view on this. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/worklab/work-trend-index/hyb...

Disclosure: I'm a current MSFT employee very happy with their approach.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#53

Post by deathanatos » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

after_care wrote: post #8

Someone1234 wrote: post #4

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

> If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. I personally lost money by working from home. My transportation costs were negligible, but I lost access to free food/drink and have to consume much more electricity at home.

I'd say it heavily depends where you are. When I was in CA, it was ~$300/mo for Caltrain+gas, ~3 hours of my time per day, plus neither lunch nor coffee was free, so ~$60/wk for that. The pandemic would have been a net benefit to the wallet there, I think.

As it was, I moved before the pandemic, because I got tired of fighting that very commute, tired of fighting to get CA to see the light on housing. So my commute was ~2 hours and ~$80/mo and lunch and coffee was paid prior to the pandemic, and I'm definitely in your bucket, since the loss of lunch significantly outweighs not paying for the commute. (And my commute was optionally biking, and I miss getting that in as much, too.)

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#54

Post by kps » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #4

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

You're right about commuting but could skip the ageism. Members of the Silent Generation and Boomers invented online collaboration and the Internet.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#55

Post by the-dude » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

bigfudge wrote: post #47

the-dude wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you want to leave the house because of the baby or the wife?

I really wish I could flag this post. Your previous overfamiliar quip was graciously handled... quit while you’re ahead.

Why can't you flag the post? I can flag your posts.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#56

Post by devn0ll » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

The world has changed @amazon. We've moved on. We want options.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#57

Post by tjalfi » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #31

kevinsundar wrote: post #11

Lol when you're an amazon employee and find out on hacker news. I must say, the communication during covid hasn't been great internally

I got an email yesterday and it was reforwarded by my skip level manager. I’m surprised you wouldn’t get it.

Someone always misses the memo in a large organization.

We have had two cases where a system was replaced with company-wide announcements and we received questions about where its predecessor went over a year later.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#58

Post by kps » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #30

grillvogel wrote: post #9

am i the only person excited about this (i dont work at amazon) im pretty burned out on wfh

> am i the only person excited about this If they'd announced people could optionally return to the office, then yeah maybe be excited about it. But are you excited they're going to force your co-workers to return even if they don't want to? Why?

Extroverts had become accustomed to introverts bearing their externalities.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#59

Post by regularfry » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

pandem wrote: post #17

Someone1234 wrote: post #4

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

I'm 28 and can't wait until I get back to the office. A lot of people like the social aspect of the job and not everybody decides to live a miserable commute away from their office

I'm 41 and glad to see the back of it. My commute was never miserable, but it was always wasted time. A lot of people also don't like the social aspect of the job, and the fact that it's been the default since basically forever has meant that those people have been under what I might call (somewhat hyperbolically) the tyranny of extroversion. I've been noticeably less stressed since I noped out of the office last year.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if you do want to be social, you can be social outside office hours no matter whether the job's in-person or remote. I can't choose not to be social in a face-to-face environment without suffering professional consequences.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#60

Post by nugget » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

dnndev wrote: post #22

I have been working from home for 10 years. My wife recently had a baby and I wish I had an office to go to...

As someone a few years ahead of you, what you may want the most is flexibility - the flexibility to decide to work from home when you want, but the option to hot desk in an office when you just need a break or distance from hectic home life. The most attractive employers may be the ones who strike this balance.