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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#221

Post by Johnny555 »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #217
Varriount wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's naive of me, but I can't help but look down on this kind of behavior. I know that tax money is rarely spent in the most efficient way possible, but (ideally) the point of taxes is that they go to benefit the general public. Moving just so one doesn't have to pay as much, after (presumably) living in the state for some time feels selfish and greedy.

Of course it’s greedy, but on the other hand wouldn’t you be crazy to not try to get out of paying millions in taxes?

Though it's not millions in this case, the top marginal tax rate in CA is 12%, so he's saving at most $850K if this was a one-time $7M payment.

Not sure that 12% is worth picking up my family and moving to another state if that's the only reason to relocate. CA and WA weather and lifestyle is much different than what he saw in Southern California (I'm guessing that's where he lived since he was in the music industry).

I made that move (from SF Bay Area to Seattle) about 5 years ago (but for work, not taxes), and I'm thinking about going back to CA for the milder winters.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#222

Post by vasco »

toss1 wrote: post #149
antasvara wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the line is pretty well defined. If a songwriter writes a song specifically for an artist, that doesn't indicate any less skill and definitely doesn't mean the artist added anything meaningful. That song could have just as easily (as in the Elvis example) been recorded by another artist. That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book dea…

>>That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book deal. Yup, just to be clear in that case, if you are writing about the characters JKR created, with their attributes, personas, and/or backstories, you are fully expected to license the characters and pay royalties to JKR. You are specifically utilizing her copyrighted works for profit, even if yo…

Mickey mouse went to the store. On the way there he slipped on a banana peel and fell.

No royalty paid.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#223

Post by kmeisthax »

Varriount wrote: post #214
Johnny555 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He moved to WA to dodge CA income tax If he waited for the big check before he made that move, CA will find him - it's not where you live when you got the check, it's where you live when you earned it.

Perhaps it's naive of me, but I can't help but look down on this kind of behavior. I know that tax money is rarely spent in the most efficient way possible, but (ideally) the point of taxes is that they go to benefit the general public. Moving just so one doesn't have to pay as much, after (presumably) living in the state for some time feels selfish and greedy.

Some states actually have laws specifically to prevent this.

For example, if you work remote for a company based in NY, PA, CT, DE, AR, or NE; your income is taxable in that state regardless of where you live or work. This is known as a "convenience of the employer" test. In fact, before a certain SCOTUS ruling you couldn't even claim a refund on that tax for your residence state's tax return (and even after, that refund is taxable).

California is already considering a wealth exit tax that would apply 10 years worth of tax nexus to anyone who leaves the state. I'd complain about this more, as it goes against the whole concept of freedom of movement... but the US already does the same thing. Emigrate from the US and you'll still be expected to pay US taxes on foreign income. I've heard there's a rule that exempts you from said taxes if you spend the entire tax year outside the US. Some people also take the really risky step of throwing out their US citizenship... which is actually grounds to be permanently banned from entering the US for any reason if they find out that you did so for tax purposes.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#224

Post by parenthesis »

jahnu wrote: post #74
zikzak wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no dog in this fight and am not even really a fan but always thought Gaga was a legit artist. Do have any proof she's not?

Performers who don't write or produce their own material are still artists and are as legitimate as any others!

Yes, I'm not complaining that Tina Turner or Diana Ross didn't write the songs they sang (with the odd exception).

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#225

Post by jdmichal »

kmeisthax wrote: post #223
Varriount wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's naive of me, but I can't help but look down on this kind of behavior. I know that tax money is rarely spent in the most efficient way possible, but (ideally) the point of taxes is that they go to benefit the general public. Moving just so one doesn't have to pay as much, after (presumably) living in the state for some time feels selfish and greedy.

Some states actually have laws specifically to prevent this. For example, if you work remote for a company based in NY, PA, CT, DE, AR, or NE; your income is taxable in that state regardless of where you live or work. This is known as a "convenience of the employer" test. In fact, before a certain SCOTUS ruling you couldn't even claim a refund on that tax for your residence state's tax return (and even after, that re…

I worked for a company based in NY and had to certify every year that I worked in NY state for less than 10 days a year. If I couldn't make that certification, then I would have owed the state taxes.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#226

Post by offtop5 »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #215
rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

I have a few friends in the business and they are basically all broke except for one. Music is like the game industry. Hits based and there are far more talented people pursuing it than there are hits. Being talented isn’t enough, you need to be well connected, good looking, lucky, etc. The internet has made it better than ever to carve out a niche and get a few thousand fans, but it’s still hard to get people to cho…

The music industry is much worse in my opinion. If you spend half your life learning to program so you can make games, you can always give up at 38 and start working on boring enterprise software.

If You're a 38-year-old self-taught musician you can't exactly walk into a company and get a job.

I still make music as one of my main hobbies, but I've accepted that no one will ever know who I am, and I'll never make a single cent. There's nothing in the world like making a song for your friends though.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#227

Post by egypturnash »

vasco wrote: post #222
toss1 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book deal. Yup, just to be clear in that case, if you are writing about the characters JKR created, with their attributes, personas, and/or backstories, you are fully expected to license the characters and pay royalties to JKR. You are specifically utilizing her copyrighted works for profit, even if yo…

Mickey mouse went to the store. On the way there he slipped on a banana peel and fell. No royalty paid.

Start making money off of that and Disney will come knocking.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#228

Post by offtop5 »

gen220 wrote: post #202
analog31 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and it goes back before Elvis. Screwing popular songwriters of their royalties has been a fixture of the music business since time immoral. From what I've read, Jelly Roll Morton's publisher added his own lyrics to Morton's instrumental tunes, to get a cut of the royalties. And it goes back before the recording industry. Before the phonograph, the "music business" was sheet music, there were "stars," and shee…

An interesting correlation is that songwriters used to be popularly-famous. Cole Porter, George Gershwin, Irving Berlin stick out. But I can't confidently name a single songwriter from the last 50 years, aside from the ones that were predominantly popular performers and recorded-music artists (Roger Waters, Lennon/McCartney, James Taylor). To me, not knowing any better, this suggests that songwriters had more economi…

At least in hip hop, if you have a falling out with your ghost writers they'll make an effort to expose you.

For example Quentin Miller here wrote tons of songs for Drake. https://genius.com/artists/Quentin-miller

Ghost producing is also a thing, I've heard stories of a producer getting $700 or $600 for fairly popular track because the the actual song is credited to someone else.

Hell, in hip hop it's not unheard of for bigger artist to outright steal ideas and concepts from underground artists. Then you can remake the song as your own, and if you decide to reach back and compensate the original artist that's okay but as far as I can tell you'll very rarely get into legal trouble.

Case in point

https://www.bet.com/music/2018/06/26/childish-gambino-this-i...

It's so easy to become successful if you just steal ideas from people

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#229

Post by throwaway1777 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #221
throwaway1777 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it’s greedy, but on the other hand wouldn’t you be crazy to not try to get out of paying millions in taxes?

Though it's not millions in this case, the top marginal tax rate in CA is 12%, so he's saving at most $850K if this was a one-time $7M payment. Not sure that 12% is worth picking up my family and moving to another state if that's the only reason to relocate. CA and WA weather and lifestyle is much different than what he saw in Southern California (I'm guessing that's where he lived since he was in the music industry)…

850k is worth moving to another state for a year, especially if this is not repeatable income, but that’s just me.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#230

Post by Rule35 »

exactlysolved wrote: post #165
bmohlenhoff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything can be a conspiracy if one tries hard enough.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Not no evidence except the word of the person denying a story which paints them in a bad light. If true, it is very surprising. Surely in most venues the people responsible for back stage hospitality are not the same people responsible for lighting, electrics, sound installation and stage safety? Isn't it quite likely that one of those teams would have met the requ…

Your assertion that they were dicks is funny. Even if they just didn't like brown M&Ms if they were paying for the venue then surely it was no different than expecting their personal luggage to be carried to the dressing room, or having banners hung. Why is this request so egregious that it's dickish but having the right brand of sparkling water is not?

> Surely in most venues the people responsible for back stage hospitality are not the same people

They all get paid from the same pool. It's the boss they're testing, not the stage hand.

Does the boss treat every requirement like a requirement and have it done seriously or do they pick and choose based on what they think is important and surprise the artist?

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