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The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

stephendiehl.com

101–110 of 630 posts

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#101
You can't really frame a ban as a way of protecting the little guy if your ban causes everyone who "invested" so far to immediately lose everything. You'd almost certainly be sued and end up paying compensation. Even a partial ban restricting who can invest would be open to accusations of elitism and politically difficult.

I suspect that a politician who thinks the crypto market is going to crash will wait for that to happen before implementing a ban. At that point you will not need to pay compensation and there will be political support for it.

In the meantime the government's best option is probably tight regulation and prosecution of any outright fraudulent operations.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#102
I think cryptocurrencies are idiotic, but this essay just does not make a case for a blanket ban at all, nor do I think one is necessary.

The environmental impact should be regulated, but other than that, governments should just stay out of it and let the cryptocurrency landscape be the wild frontier its proponents want it to be. May the best obfuscated smart contract code win, until no one wants to play anymore.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a bit more nuance to this than a binary "does" or "does not" have authority. I'm not claiming it's unconstitutional to ban crypto, or that they literally don't have the authority. I'm claiming it's a bad, authoritarian move that isn't in the interest of their constituents, and is not in the spirit of US laws.

You're free to your opinion, but I see little benefit in a technology for your average constituent that is more expensive than instant payments to move funds, has a highly volatile value (which is an anti pattern of a currency), and provides little to no recourse in the event there is fraud or theft (again, an anti-pattern crypto proponents champion as some sort of feature). One person's authoritarianism is another's…

> I see little benefit in a technology

I disagree that this should ever be a cause for banning something. It's not the government's job to pick and choose which technologies or products will be successful or useful.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#104

Hostile and clearly framed article from the first sentence. Could not read it further.

I am sorry that you did that. I believe that Bitcoin's intrinsic energy usage is a big big problem, and I would have been interested in a reasoned counter-argument from someone who is in favour of Bitcoin or other crypto-currencies. After all, I read HN mostly to learn and grow. I especially enjoy informative comments on articles and the ensuing debates.

Bitcoins energy usage might be it‘s most important property as an asset. Blatanly discrediting it because of „energy usage“ is the simple route. I prefer to dig deeper for the truth. Maybe PoS is part of the solution, but I‘m not convinced of a purely virtual system without a physical anchor.

An overview of counter-argumebtd to the main bitcoin criticisms: https://www.lynalden.com/misconceptions-about-bitcoin/

Regarding energy usage some arguments are: using stranded energy (exists very much), stabilizing energy nets (especially with renewables), incentivizing renewable research.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#105
post #21

This guy didn't buy Bitcoin so he want government to ban it. I am joking, but I am sure there is some truth to that. If we start banning what is a bit shady, we will end up shutting down 80% of businesses out there that make money.

This is a strange sort of argument and seeing it so often from cryptocurrency proponents makes me feel that the pro-cryptocurrency are weaker not stronger.

On the one hand, yes, I'm sad that I didn't buy $100 of bitcoin ten years ago and hold until now. Who wouldn't be? But on the other hand, how does this even bear resemblance to an argument?

> "The political case for a ban on fossil fuels"

So sad that you didn't buy some Exxon huh?

> "The political case for a ban on tobacco"

So sad that you didn't buy some Philip Morris huh?

> "The political case for a ban on energy trading"

So sad that you didn't buy some Enron huh?

"So sad that you didn't buy some bitcoin huh?" is like the opposite of the sour grapes fable: "I was able to reach the grapes so they must be sweet".

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#106
I think the "how" part is the most interesting question here, both in terms of political justification (people who bought $100 of BTC on their coinbase app won't be very pleased) and practical enforcement. Of authors suggested measures, I think only the first would be necessary to result in a de-facto ban.

"Halt all wire transfers of dollars in and out of cryptocurrency exchanges.

Halt foreign entities trading in dollar cash-equivalent crypto assets.

Add Chinese and other foreign cryptocurrency exchanges hiding in tax-havens to sanctioned entities lists.

Regulate the sale of any existing cryptocurrency assets to US persons by classifying them as securities investment contracts moving forward."

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#107
post #12
post #5

I think the main premise of this article is the fact that crypto's carbon emission is insane, especially Bitcoin, which I agree (I don't hold Bitcoin for this exact reason). But there are many other crypto that uses Proof of Stake, way way greener than Proof of Work, such as Cardano. Even Ethereum is transitioning to Proof of Stake. This article should be re-titled "The Political Case for a Blanket Proof of Work Ban"…

Wasn't that posted like 2 days ago on HN already?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26623182

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#108
From the article: "The United States is a deeply economically unequal society and the proliferation of get-rich-quick schemes taps into a deep weakness in the American mindset."

When has the United States not been this way? The first explorers came over here hoping to find a trove of far East spices or gold, and make a killing. The Spanish did make a killing on gold for quite some years, even as they destroyed entire civilizations. Some American pioneers just wanted a piece of land on which to raise a family and support themselves away from tyranny. But many others were looking for gold or other quick riches. The history of our stock exchanges has been one pump-and-dump after another.

Diehl's other criticism, that crypto mining is environmentally destructive, has some merit, but is that a reason to ban an entire industry? What about people fortunate enough to be near hydroelectric plants, or people with solar electric or nuclear? Building extra coal-fired plants in China to power crypto operations does sound bad, but even China is moving away from polluting sources; they have a desperate need to clean up their environment and they are working hard on nuclear and solar alternatives, not to mention that they are developing cheap, affordable electric vehicles.

Every currency system is built on trust. The U.S. dollar, which is the world's reference currency, is increasingly shaky; last year the Treasury created more dollars in a single year than in all years previously. A lot of people are very worried that a currency collapse from excessive debt and a weak economy is coming in the not-too-distant future.

Crypto currency is an interesting and powerful new technology that may actually save us from monetary collapse; I wouldn't dismiss it as a dangerous boondoggle just yet.

At any rate, I don't see how Mr. Diehl's prescription for banning crypto could possibly be implemented; private companies have the right to create products for sale or trade as long as they are not dangerous. Even tobacco and guns, both known to potentially kill people, are still huge profitable industries albeit highly regulated.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#109
Notice: When Wall street decides to horrible things with money in its various ways, nobody bats an eye. When fraud happens, nobody goes to jail. It's business as usual.

When the People decides to do horrible things with money in its various ways, we see hardware manufacturers attempt to lock down hardware to prevent it (nVidia), we see the SEC collectively lose their shit, we see completely inconsistent rules from the IRS how to even handle it, and we see calls for its ban.

Rules for thee, but not for me.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#110
post #32
post #5

I think the main premise of this article is the fact that crypto's carbon emission is insane, especially Bitcoin, which I agree (I don't hold Bitcoin for this exact reason). But there are many other crypto that uses Proof of Stake, way way greener than Proof of Work, such as Cardano. Even Ethereum is transitioning to Proof of Stake. This article should be re-titled "The Political Case for a Blanket Proof of Work Ban"…

The main premise of the article is that cryptocurrencies are "speculation for speculation’s sake," i.e. gambling, and that's bad. Also, the article claims that they contribute to inequality. The green stuff is basically a side note. I don't think it's a terribly strong case but I suppose it depends on whether you agree that crypto is gambling and if you think gambling should banned. Anyway, I think lots of people stu…

You guys are all dissecting his points like academics. I think the real thing is that the environmental piece is a strong enough weakness to make an emotional argument to build support within the non-hardcore communities with the cloaked motivation (as always) being one of control or financial power. The no-cryptos are betting on a growing swell of anti-anti-environmental ideas in general with this one.

Currency/whatever crypto is, is just a system of trust. Logic is likely to have little to do with the downfall if it comes. Scrolling through the comments the Crypto-religious right is out in full effect and tbh, I understand it. For many people they have moved up many brackets of the wealth ladder and they probably should reject anyone coming for their system with vigor.

I think the downside of the crypto religious complex is going to be, that if any of these emotional arguments (coming to kill crypto) become mainstream and compelling, the tenor of arguments is going to push the crypto and no-crypto sides apart cartoonishly (think modern dems and republicans) and the choices of resolution will have to be loud and final.

Make no mistake, crypto is much closer to a political religious sect than it is a science.

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