Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 363 posts

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#141

Post by emodendroket »

antasvara wrote: post #90
skeeter2020 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If they did not write a song they should not be getting paid for songwriting. What does "write the song" mean though? You hear lots of remix and cover versions of famous songs which are obviously derivative works, but what if that happens before the song is ever published? What if a song writer creates a song specifically for an artist? Do these stylistic influences count for writing credit? The line is not well d…

I think the line is pretty well defined. If a songwriter writes a song specifically for an artist, that doesn't indicate any less skill and definitely doesn't mean the artist added anything meaningful. That song could have just as easily (as in the Elvis example) been recorded by another artist. That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book dea…

In fact a number of hits were originally composed with a different artist in mind who declined.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#142

Post by runevault »

jaywalk wrote: post #3

I'd argue that the producers/composers are far more important to pop songs today than the writers.

Do you also believe software developers should take a smaller cut/salary to pay more to sales, because without sales selling the product it is worthless? That's the equivalent to the argument you are making.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#143

Post by spoonjim »

emodendroket wrote: post #140
dehrmann wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the artists make token edits to the songs so they can keep up the charade of writing their own songs for marketing reasons. Someone told me "Taylor Swift writes her own songs." Sure, but when you look at the songwriters on 1989, over half of them were at least co-written by the song writer with the most #1 hits after McCartney and Lennon.

I looked this up and while some of her older hits were just credited to her, a really impressive number of them were co-written by Liz Rose, who I’ve never even heard of.

Could it be a pseudonym for someone whose image would suffer if they were seen to be writing Taylor Swift songs?

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#144

Post by exactlysolved »

blfr wrote: post #85
analog31 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an IP lawyer, but I have a handful of patents. As a patent lawyer explained to me, the list of inventors on a patent should be strictly based on whether somebody actually invented something or not. It's not like an academic paper, where everybody on the team gets to be an "author." In my view the same thing should apply to songwriting. The current standard is, you wrote a song if you wrote the melody or the w…

OP is primarily about money, not credit. The songwriting is extremely valuable, otherwise just write your own damn songs. If it's so valuable, how can these companies find "hit" writers for £100 a piece? While it is entirely possible for something of immense artistic or technical value to not be priced commensurately on the market, I've heard these songs, this is not the case here.

Because the hit writers who are working for $100 a piece, are expecting that if their song gets picked up, they will share in its success through their publishing royalties.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#145

Post by DanBC »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #75
S_A_P wrote: post #54

It seems as though this is not a well understood issue from reading the comments here. This isn’t artists doing interviews and saying “I wrote this”. The problem is that the artists are bullying their way into getting points for the song writing credits (publishing royalties) when they had little(change a word in the lyrics) or no input into the song. I fully support artists getting as much of the live performance/me…

>> If they did not write a song they should not be getting paid for songwriting. What does "write the song" mean though? You hear lots of remix and cover versions of famous songs which are obviously derivative works, but what if that happens before the song is ever published? What if a song writer creates a song specifically for an artist? Do these stylistic influences count for writing credit? The line is not well d…

It's about paying people for the work they do.

This page has a reasonably accessible description of who does what and why they get paid: https://www.openmicuk.co.uk/advice/music-royalties-explained...

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#146

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

jahnu wrote: post #74
zikzak wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no dog in this fight and am not even really a fan but always thought Gaga was a legit artist. Do have any proof she's not?

Performers who don't write or produce their own material are still artists and are as legitimate as any others!

These days a lot of them can't actually sing without autotune to clean up their caterwauling.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#147

Post by apetresc »

spoonjim wrote: post #143
emodendroket wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked this up and while some of her older hits were just credited to her, a really impressive number of them were co-written by Liz Rose, who I’ve never even heard of.

Could it be a pseudonym for someone whose image would suffer if they were seen to be writing Taylor Swift songs?

No... just Google "Liz Rose"

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#148

Post by spoonjim »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #97
jahnu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performers who don't write or produce their own material are still artists and are as legitimate as any others!

I'd say they are performers not artists. The girl running Photoshop is an artist, the HP LaserJet that prints it out isn't. We don't consider choir members to be artists, but if it's just one voice we assume they are?

If Jascha Heifetz and Murray Perahia aren’t artists then your definition is theatrically absurd.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#149

Post by toss1 »

antasvara wrote: post #90
skeeter2020 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If they did not write a song they should not be getting paid for songwriting. What does "write the song" mean though? You hear lots of remix and cover versions of famous songs which are obviously derivative works, but what if that happens before the song is ever published? What if a song writer creates a song specifically for an artist? Do these stylistic influences count for writing credit? The line is not well d…

I think the line is pretty well defined. If a songwriter writes a song specifically for an artist, that doesn't indicate any less skill and definitely doesn't mean the artist added anything meaningful. That song could have just as easily (as in the Elvis example) been recorded by another artist. That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book dea…

>>That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book deal.

Yup, just to be clear in that case, if you are writing about the characters JKR created, with their attributes, personas, and/or backstories, you are fully expected to license the characters and pay royalties to JKR. You are specifically utilizing her copyrighted works for profit, even if you don't use a single line of pre-existing dialogue.

This is why we don't have a million non-Disney Mickey Mouse stories, media, videos, etc. - Disney owns the copyright on not only the specific prior works but also the characters.

No question, influence and creative origin count, and should be compensated.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#150

Post by emodendroket »

spoonjim wrote: post #143
emodendroket wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked this up and while some of her older hits were just credited to her, a really impressive number of them were co-written by Liz Rose, who I’ve never even heard of.

Could it be a pseudonym for someone whose image would suffer if they were seen to be writing Taylor Swift songs?

No, she’s a very successful country songwriter. Can’t see why she wouldn’t want the association.
Post reply on HN