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Latest Mozilla VPN features

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Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#21

Post by maeln »

I feel like most of those VPN services are using very borderline marketing and like to keep a lot of information blurry.

As far as I know, in a lot of country (like France) it is a legal obligation to keep logs and be able to identify one of your customer if the police demands it. Therefore, if you have server in France or any country with similar rules, you can't operate a "0 log" service. And since those kinds of services have servers everywhere (and it is even one of their selling point), it is extremely unlikely that they don't keep you data and will hand it to the police (willingly or not) if requested.

And if their own server get breached, you can get the info of all the customers who used the breached server.

So I find the claim of those services that they provide "more privacy" pretty lousy. Yes they do hide your IP addresses, but that's far from being the only data use to fingerprint you. And if it is to protect you against a Wi-Fi that you don't trust or your ISP, sure it works, but you move the trust from them to your VPN provider.

Fighting against geofencing is good though.

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#22

Post by zaarn »

opheliate wrote: post #12

It's really disappointing to me that Mozilla VPN didn't support Linux from the get-go, and even now, from their FAQ [1], apparently only supports Ubuntu. The code for the client is open source, and can be built on other distributions, but the more pressing question to me is why their own client is necessary at all. Mullvad (which this VPN is based on) allows you to just download WireGuard/OpenVPN config files, which…

The device limit is enforce on Mullvad's side already. It's 5 devices, even if you use other client (tracked by simultanously connecting IPs IIRC with some leeway for spikes).

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#23

Post by Spivak »

opheliate wrote: post #12

It's really disappointing to me that Mozilla VPN didn't support Linux from the get-go, and even now, from their FAQ [1], apparently only supports Ubuntu. The code for the client is open source, and can be built on other distributions, but the more pressing question to me is why their own client is necessary at all. Mullvad (which this VPN is based on) allows you to just download WireGuard/OpenVPN config files, which…

Like it's absolutely wild that their VPN implementation requires their client to work. Basically every other VPN provider will expose endpoints for IPSec, OpenVPN, WireGuard, etc. etc. for instant compatibility with clients that can't run your pretty app.

Sad that PIA tanked their rep because their Linux support was top notch. They even had a script that would set up NetworkManager profiles for you.

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#25

Post by akalsz »

teddyh wrote: post #20
natch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What deplatforming and anti free speech measures is this talking about?

The way I always hear it, the title of a Mozilla blog post was “ We need more than deplatforming ”¹, which was/is interpreted by some to be an endorsement of deplatforming. 1) https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-than-d...

> which was/is interpreted by some to be an endorsement of deplatforming.

How else could one interpret it? I'm genuinely curious, as I thought they were pretty clear about it (emphasis mine):

> We need solutions that don't start after untold damage has been done.

> Changing these dangerous dynamics requires more than just the temporary silencing or permanent removal of bad actors from social media platforms.

> Additional precise and specific actions must also be taken:

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#26

Post by cyberlab »

maeln wrote: post #21

I feel like most of those VPN services are using very borderline marketing and like to keep a lot of information blurry. As far as I know, in a lot of country (like France) it is a legal obligation to keep logs and be able to identify one of your customer if the police demands it. Therefore, if you have server in France or any country with similar rules, you can't operate a "0 log" service. And since those kinds of s…

I agree. A VPN should only ever be used for the following:

- Shifting traffic over a VPN when using untrusted/sketchy wifi hotspots

- Spoofing your geo-location to use geo-specific content

And that's it. If privacy is your goal, Tor is much more suitable since it's not a single-hop proxy like a VPN and compartments all your traffic. (But of course Tor is not a silver bullet and there are caveats).

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#27

Post by dgellow »

maeln wrote: post #21

I feel like most of those VPN services are using very borderline marketing and like to keep a lot of information blurry. As far as I know, in a lot of country (like France) it is a legal obligation to keep logs and be able to identify one of your customer if the police demands it. Therefore, if you have server in France or any country with similar rules, you can't operate a "0 log" service. And since those kinds of s…

The entire VPN industry is really shady. Their marketing is entirely based on creating literal FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) and sell their service as the perfect and cheap solution. The presence they have on youtube ads and other mainstream platform ads is really disturbing.

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#28

Post by Spivak »

kfreds wrote: post #19
opheliate wrote: post #12

It's really disappointing to me that Mozilla VPN didn't support Linux from the get-go, and even now, from their FAQ [1], apparently only supports Ubuntu. The code for the client is open source, and can be built on other distributions, but the more pressing question to me is why their own client is necessary at all. Mullvad (which this VPN is based on) allows you to just download WireGuard/OpenVPN config files, which…

Hi! I'm one of Mullvad's founders. I can't speak for Mozilla, but we have our own desktop and mobile apps because it enables us to do more privacy-preserving things with a higher assurance. Consider for instance DNS leaks, Teredo leaks, IPv6 leaks, esoteric DHCP directives that can hack your routing tables, and so on. And these are just a few of the things we were early in mitigating correctly. Consider also the tigh…

But it throws compatibility with devices that don't support your client out the window. Like I might want to have an entire VLAN on my home network route all traffic through the VPN which would happen through my router. But my router only supports common VPN protocols like IPSec, OpenVPN, and WireGuard.

Sure, I could make it work with a separate Linux server running your app and some routing but that's far more work than most other VPN providers.

I'm fine with warnings in your UI about connections with these protocols being "less secure" like how Zoom handles E2E with phones.

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#29

Post by opheliate »

kfreds wrote: post #19
opheliate wrote: post #12

It's really disappointing to me that Mozilla VPN didn't support Linux from the get-go, and even now, from their FAQ [1], apparently only supports Ubuntu. The code for the client is open source, and can be built on other distributions, but the more pressing question to me is why their own client is necessary at all. Mullvad (which this VPN is based on) allows you to just download WireGuard/OpenVPN config files, which…

Hi! I'm one of Mullvad's founders. I can't speak for Mozilla, but we have our own desktop and mobile apps because it enables us to do more privacy-preserving things with a higher assurance. Consider for instance DNS leaks, Teredo leaks, IPv6 leaks, esoteric DHCP directives that can hack your routing tables, and so on. And these are just a few of the things we were early in mitigating correctly. Consider also the tigh…

Hi, thanks for the response. I'm a big fan of Mullvad's approach to creating a VPN, and I'm hopeful that more companies will follow in your path. I've been using your service for a few months now, and I'm really satisfied with it.

I should perhaps have been clearer when I referred to generic VPN clients, I was talking about the original WireGuard implementation by Jason Donenfeld, not just some random software, which I would hope you agree is a (sufficiently) secure implementation when used by technically proficient users? I do appreciate that there are reasons for having a specific client for your service, and it is absolutely necessary for those who are new to VPN apps, but I would hope you appreciate the reasons for providing implementation-agnostic WireGuard/OpenVPN config files, since your own service does so?

Regardless, thanks again for the work you're doing in this sector, and best of luck for the future.

Re: Latest Mozilla VPN features

#30

Post by teddyh »

akalsz wrote: post #25
teddyh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I always hear it, the title of a Mozilla blog post was “ We need more than deplatforming ”¹, which was/is interpreted by some to be an endorsement of deplatforming. 1) https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-than-d...

> which was/is interpreted by some to be an endorsement of deplatforming. How else could one interpret it? I'm genuinely curious, as I thought they were pretty clear about it (emphasis mine): > We need solutions that don't start after untold damage has been done. > Changing these dangerous dynamics requires more than just the temporary silencing or permanent removal of bad actors from social media platforms. > Additi…

Imagine that you wanted to advocate against deplatforming, specifically by suggesting better ways to accomplish common laudable goals. However, you can’t argue directly against deplatforming, as this instantly labels you a Trump supporter (and might get you deplatformed). So what could you do?

I am not claiming any secret knowledge about what Mozilla was or is thinking, but what they wrote can certainly also be interpreted in this light, too.

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