Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying • Hacker News Board

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#91

Post by DyslexicAtheist » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

colloq wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's only adolescents. You can see rich Google employees bullying poorer developers on Twitter in the name of social justice. Some of the bullies must be at least 50 years old. Social media and Twitter are bad because you can form virtual tribes and yield to age-old instincts. The more individualistic people are, the less they join those tribes. Individualists tend to be grumpy though, for which they ar…

In recent years, I have found my internet experiences enormously frustrating because I used to have real friends via internet. We exchanged Christmas presents. They helped me sort out how to raise my challenging children. I always had someone to talk with any time of the day or night when I was having insomnia or whatever. And I haven't had stuff like in recent years. I just thought it was me because I spent a few ye…

as I get older I struggle to see the magic and joy of something new because nothing really is new anymore and just a variation of something previously experienced. Perhaps the Internet has changed for the worse idk it's impossible to measure since I have also changed too much to be able to gauge this properly myself.

I do know that my own and others expectation of Tech (from the mid 90ies) was just another utopia and I resent myself for drinking the Kool-aid, and hate myself for having gotten a job in Tech and playing my tiny part in being an ambassador for this type of future among the small group of people I had influence over (family, friends etc who all wished they did the same seeing my salary and lifestyle with much envy). I was so convinced of science and Tech being the answer to all problems we create that I thought teaching my kids to use Tech is a good use of time. But today I can't bring back time and I hate myself for it because I could have gone for a walk with them in the woods and created real memories instead.

another thing that hits me as I get old is it's becoming harder to make new connections IRL. I see my old friends having given up on life by refusing to get out of a stuck marriage, getting fat and lazy, having lost their confidence and ability and interest to do anything new, and the best I can get from them is a statement about what's cool on Netflix these days.

Then I look at myself and realize that I'm as much a slave to the algorithm as them even I do everything to not be part of this. There simply is no escape[1]. I gave up all social media years ago (except HN) and spend at least 2-3 hours outside every day. And my hate shifts from "Tech in general" to myself because I know there is no way out. Perhaps people like David Foster Wallace and others who are no longer with us have seen it coming years ago, and knew there are only 2 options: a) avoid others and be happy with just myself or b) off myself. I'm doing an OK job (I think) managing a) but I can't claim that I'm not looking forward to the day I snuff it either. It feels like the only thing that is worse than dealing with my own judgement and myself is dealing with the judgement or opinions of others (see the idea of "Hell is other people" from "No Exit")

[1] The Technological Society by Jacques Ellul https://archive.org/details/JacquesEllulTheTechnologicalSoci...

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#92

Post by DoreenMichele » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #91

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In recent years, I have found my internet experiences enormously frustrating because I used to have real friends via internet. We exchanged Christmas presents. They helped me sort out how to raise my challenging children. I always had someone to talk with any time of the day or night when I was having insomnia or whatever. And I haven't had stuff like in recent years. I just thought it was me because I spent a few ye…

as I get older I struggle to see the magic and joy of something new because nothing really is new anymore and just a variation of something previously experienced. Perhaps the Internet has changed for the worse idk it's impossible to measure since I have also changed too much to be able to gauge this properly myself. I do know that my own and others expectation of Tech (from the mid 90ies) was just another utopia and…

I've certainly spent my time in hell of the "hell is other people" variety. I've spent my time there both in my youth before the internet took over the world and in recent years after it did.

Because of the internet, I've had friends -- real friends who were extremely important to me -- in Canada, in Guam and in the Middle East. They helped save my life and shape my character.

While largely housebound due to my health, the internet was how I had close relationships with people the world over without exposing me to their germs or them to mine.

I left my corporate job that was helping to kill me and slept in a tent for a few years while trying to figure out how to make a few bucks online. That helped save my life and helped me get healthier when there's not supposed to be any hope for me.

Once, my oldest son said to me "There's both good and evil in all things." I thought that was profound and life giving and eye opening.

I asked him where he learned such profound wisdom given his relative youth. He told me I taught him that. He learned it from me.

That was even more surprising. I didn't have any memory or awareness of having done any such thing.

I don't hate tech. I see tremendous untapped potential in it to build a better world and I flail about trying to figure out how to write about it knowing that I have no audience and I have no credibility and no one believes my story.

I start little blogs that peter out and go nowhere. I start little reddits that sometimes have me as the only member for ages.

And I'm sorry to hear that someone who likely de facto helped to save my life by being one of the cogs in the machine that built the tech that helped me live when, by all rights, I should have died is someone so bitter and disillusioned with the very thing I still find wondrous and life giving and a means to connect with people in spite of my incurable condition and compromised immune system.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#93

Post by specialist » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #91

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In recent years, I have found my internet experiences enormously frustrating because I used to have real friends via internet. We exchanged Christmas presents. They helped me sort out how to raise my challenging children. I always had someone to talk with any time of the day or night when I was having insomnia or whatever. And I haven't had stuff like in recent years. I just thought it was me because I spent a few ye…

as I get older I struggle to see the magic and joy of something new because nothing really is new anymore and just a variation of something previously experienced. Perhaps the Internet has changed for the worse idk it's impossible to measure since I have also changed too much to be able to gauge this properly myself. I do know that my own and others expectation of Tech (from the mid 90ies) was just another utopia and…

I think living thru transitions helps provide perspective.

I'm casually rereading the media and technology critics. McLuhan, Postman, Chomsky, Shirky, Orwell, others. It's kind of amazing how prescient some of their observations were.

Thanks for the Ellul tip. Will read.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#94

Post by specialist » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #92

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as I get older I struggle to see the magic and joy of something new because nothing really is new anymore and just a variation of something previously experienced. Perhaps the Internet has changed for the worse idk it's impossible to measure since I have also changed too much to be able to gauge this properly myself. I do know that my own and others expectation of Tech (from the mid 90ies) was just another utopia and…

I've certainly spent my time in hell of the "hell is other people" variety. I've spent my time there both in my youth before the internet took over the world and in recent years after it did. Because of the internet, I've had friends -- real friends who were extremely important to me -- in Canada, in Guam and in the Middle East. They helped save my life and shape my character. While largely housebound due to my healt…

I had a bone marrow transplant in 1989. I had to remain isolated for about a year. Back when 12 months seemed like forever.

I started a BBS network. That was my social life. Those digital pen pal friends were my life line. Probably the most intense, intimate relationships I've ever had.

I don't know what happened in the medium transitions since. Dial up to internet, FidoNet to UUCP & NNTP, FTP & Gopher to HTTP, multiuser to MMORPG, blogs to social media, desktop to laptop to mobile, social media to livestream.

Maybe it's like Chomsky tried to warn us: Anything ad supported is bad for us.

Maybe it's like David Graeber suggests: While winner-takes-all is something like a natural law, we can always find nooks and corners to connect with each other and have genuine relationships.

I really dunno.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#95

Post by DoreenMichele » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #94

DoreenMichele wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've certainly spent my time in hell of the "hell is other people" variety. I've spent my time there both in my youth before the internet took over the world and in recent years after it did. Because of the internet, I've had friends -- real friends who were extremely important to me -- in Canada, in Guam and in the Middle East. They helped save my life and shape my character. While largely housebound due to my healt…

I had a bone marrow transplant in 1989. I had to remain isolated for about a year. Back when 12 months seemed like forever. I started a BBS network. That was my social life. Those digital pen pal friends were my life line. Probably the most intense, intimate relationships I've ever had. I don't know what happened in the medium transitions since. Dial up to internet, FidoNet to UUCP & NNTP, FTP & Gopher to HTTP, multi…

I think it's a case of innocence lost. Having been burned, I can no longer trust people I meet online.

Long ago, I trusted people I met online in a way I can't anymore and that creates a barrier that protects me from potential predators, but it also keeps out potential friends. Multiply that across literally billions of people and it's a hard problem to solve.

I don't think the tech, per se, is the problem. We opened a social Pandora's Box and having seen how things can go wrong at scale, we optimize for trying to guard against potential evil rather than for fostering good.

With that, our fears deepen. It becomes a case of "Going to war to preserve the peace is like fucking to preserve virginity."

Ultimately, it comes back to the people and how they live their lives and what is in their minds. Tech is a problem because we've decided The Tech is the problem rather than deciding how we use it is The Problem.

Then we very ironically design new apps to remedy our problems rooted in the idea that The Tech is the problem rather than designing new philosophies and new ideas and new social norms which has historically been the effective remedy for social ills.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#96

Post by westmeal » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

rland wrote: post #40

When you interact online, you fundamentally are interacting with only yourself. It is a solipsistic endeavor. You fundamentally choose which comments to respond to; unlike the real world, where a conversation occurs between two people, you can instantly drive into a conversation whenever you see fit, and leave whenever you wish also. Therefore, the choice of which conversation, which comment, is entirely yours. And s…

While I disagree, I have to admit there are tidbits of truth here.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#97

Post by undefined1 » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #82

undefined1 wrote: post #27

> The study also found that adolescent males are more likely to engage in cyberbullying than females, aligning with past studies that show aggressive behaviors tend to be more male driven. for a certain definition of aggression. but social media bullying is a Mean Girls phenomenon. it's reputation and character assassination, which is aggressive behavior. male aggression tends to be physical and they spend more time…

Men do reputation and character assassination pretty routinely. They are no strangers to smear campaigns or even subtle manipulating group against one. Males use words for aggression quite a lot, actually.

yes, but it's not their primary mode of aggression and they're not as good at it.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#98

Post by rland » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

inventtheday wrote: post #51

rland wrote: post #40

When you interact online, you fundamentally are interacting with only yourself. It is a solipsistic endeavor. You fundamentally choose which comments to respond to; unlike the real world, where a conversation occurs between two people, you can instantly drive into a conversation whenever you see fit, and leave whenever you wish also. Therefore, the choice of which conversation, which comment, is entirely yours. And s…

so basically, you are actually me? Cool.

Indeed, that is what I'm saying. Even though I'm a real person, when you read this comment, you do not gain any interiority into my real person.

You read my comment in your mind's voice, entirely with your own biases. And the fact that you choose to read & respond to my comment over any other means that the "conversation" we are having is with the disembodied voice (my voice) in your head with another disembodied voice (your voice) in your head.

I don't know you, and you don't know me; the exchange takes place on your side, within your ego, and only informed by your perspectives and biases. (Likewise, for me!)

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#99

Post by rland » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

goblin89 wrote: post #67

rland wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think texts/video calls/etc. isn't social media, it's much more like conversation. That's why people (in general) are not nearly as mean or rude on a voice call or a 1-to-1 text chat. When you hear someone's voice or actually engage with a real time conversation (like a text chat, which you can't as easily just walk away from), they develop an interiority to you that forces you to empathize with them. The physical…

> I think texts/video calls/etc. isn't social media, it's much more like conversation. > That's why people (in general) are not nearly as mean or rude on a voice call or a 1-to-1 text chat. This doesn’t have to do with social media per se and is inherent to group dynamics. People are more rude as a rule in many-to-many conversations: where there is a group, there always lurks contention for status. Bullying is the mo…

Yes, I think you're right. It's useful to have the unique label of "social media" because the scale you mention can't really be replicated offline. A difference in quantity is a difference in kind in this case.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#100

Post by namelessone » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #41

Lammy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unwarranted self-importance. Bonus points if it's a photo of them on a stage holding a microphone with that open-palm I-am-giving-a-TED-talk gesture :)

This is probably a pretty decent heuristic actually! My guess, as an armchair psychologist, is that narcissism and a toxic need to generate attention and drama are highly correlated with constantly taking selfies and sharing them. Look for the profile picture and just a quick glance at the feed, and if it's full of selfies, you probably have a pretty good idea of who you're dealing with.

As another armchair psychologist with an ex-girlfriend that was just like that, I can confirm.