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Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

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Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#41

Post by axguscbklp »

mindslight wrote: post #40
axguscbklp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw the patriotic and military-worshipping stuff out too. It annoys me as much as the "social justice" stuff annoys me. Perhaps more. I'm in principle opposed to the patriotic and military stuff, although I'd probably make an exception if the country was actually being militarily attacked for some reason other than because of blowback for its meddling overseas. I could imagine supporting some social justice messagi…

> The theory that minorities are disproportionately shot by police started to seem questionable to me once I corrected for things like police encounter rates and homicide rates You don't have to fully subscribe to the intrinsically-racist Black Lives Matter narrative to agree that unaccountable police are a major problem regardless of race. And IMO unaccountable police is a more fundamental issue than the newly-stoke…

I think that unaccountable police are a big problem, but I feel that I cannot support the BLM narrative even though that narrative might end up making police more accountable. For one thing, it disgusts me when I see this narrative pushed dogmatically even though it is far from clear that it accurately describes reality - and especially, it disgusts me when I see people try to make it taboo to question the narrative. I view that level of thought policing as a real danger - while perhaps it does not endanger people's lives, it does help to turn society into a place that is unfit for free-thinking people to live in. For another, dogmatic belief in the BLM narrative has led to actual violence.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#42

Post by [deleted] »

blacktriangle wrote: post #22
Larrikin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in an ideal world only politicians and political pundits would be allowed to voice their opinions on issues and not people actually effected? LeBron isn't kneeling because he thinks the police will shoot him, he's kneeling for his family, friends, and people he grew up with that aren't famous athletes that he would like to stay alive.

LeBron is a wonderful example of people who shouldn't open their mouth about things they don't understand, like the actual police violence stats which show that blacks are underrepresented as the victims of the police as a function of criminality.

[deleted]

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#43

Post by jariel »

ljp_206 wrote: post #35
jariel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interjection of SJ makes the moment 'very serious and contemplative'. Like being in Church, listening to a Sermon. That's the complete opposite of sports where people spectate to literally get away from controversy, 'serious' things. For many Americans, especially men, it's their '2 hour safe space' where they can have a beer and not worry. Imagine if you're doing Yoga, and the well meaning instructor starts in a…

I agree with you that our society is rife with culture war toxicity. But I'm confused with the whole 'shut up and dribble' mentality. Sure, sports fans may not want politics to bleed into their sport-viewing time, but as long as athletes do not exist in a vacuum, what do they expect athletes to do? Be mindless entertainers? Ignore their conscience and pretend like they have no qualms with the status quo when they are…

So I think anything outside of the arena would be great.

I'm cynical about Kaep for example - his wife Tweeted that 'NFL owners are like slavers' which is possibly the most toxic and insulting thing a player's wife could say, and that the media supported her on it tells me there is a problem. He makes a big name for himself lighting up controversy.

But let's take a guy like Kaep and assume totally 'goodwill and intent':

Anything with the team logo or directly at gametime that is controversial is out of bounds. It's not his place to use that forum - much like you or I couldn't use our workplace to do something that upset a lot of customers - we'd be fired.

Anything off field is great: Social reach outs, Television appearances, testifying in Congress, rallying people to protest, working with communities, governance.

With the team - he could 'work with them on something material' for example direct programs by teams to help with the community. I think one example would be to literally get players and cops to sit down - behind closed doors - and talk. Cops will listen to sports heroes.

Also, having a black stripe on uniforms etc. is a nice touch to signal support of a movement, that's not remotely antagonizing.

And FYI nobody should have to stand for the flag. Jehova's Witnesses, Mennonites etc. don't believe that God's Children should be divided by nationalism. They won't serve in the military for that reason either. So - sitting it out in the locker room would be perfectly fine.

What Lebron has done seems mostly in bounds to me - except have some have noted on this thread it's quite hypocritical to be fully BLM but to completely tow the CCP line even if he has obviously more affinity for one form of protest ... it's hard to have full integrity when you're just raising a fuss over your own thing.

I think it would have worked out better with a smarter touch, and I honestly don't fully buy guys like Kaep's intentions. He seems a little bit Trumpish to me, i.e. there's a layer of 'self serving' to all of it.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#44

Post by geoduck14 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #34
sethc2 wrote: post #16

I watched sports then and watch them now. I just love to see awesome athletes who have honed their bodies and reflexes to such a crazy degree do things I could never do. The interjection of social justice issues hasn’t yet taken anything away from the joy of the game from what I’ve seen. Kneeling for the anthem, wearing armbands with messages doesn’t change any of that. If they start saying we need more diversity in…

The only thing I hate is how many athletes who have such short 3 year windows have half their income taxed for those three years then go on to work “normal” jobs for the next 30 years, and someone who ultimately made the same income over 30 years at a high paying “normal” job got taxed so much less over the same time span. Athletes do not get taxed on "half their income." Each bracket of income is taxed at a progress…

That is a 39% tax rate.

That feels like a pretty big percent.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#46

Post by soared »

toomuchredbull wrote: post #20

It just offended me that someone like Kyrie Irving, literally thought the world was flat in 2018 and now we are suddenly supposed to respect and listen to his voice. He's the Vice President of the player's association. Guess what some of these players are morons and they don't necessarily have to be listened to.

I agree with your statement, but do not agree with your sentiment. Being offended over something that really doesn't impact your life seems troublesome.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#47

Post by soared »

The title and content of the article (and therefore discussion here) do not follow what was actually asked in the poll. The question asked was, "How has the discussion of politics in sports on social media impacted your viewing habits?"

Social media was the focus of the poll, which is not mentioned in the article or comments here. The poll was clearly not asking about politics in sports, but rather discussion of politics in sports on social media.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#48

Post by mindslight »

axguscbklp wrote: post #41
mindslight wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The theory that minorities are disproportionately shot by police started to seem questionable to me once I corrected for things like police encounter rates and homicide rates You don't have to fully subscribe to the intrinsically-racist Black Lives Matter narrative to agree that unaccountable police are a major problem regardless of race. And IMO unaccountable police is a more fundamental issue than the newly-stoke…

I think that unaccountable police are a big problem, but I feel that I cannot support the BLM narrative even though that narrative might end up making police more accountable. For one thing, it disgusts me when I see this narrative pushed dogmatically even though it is far from clear that it accurately describes reality - and especially, it disgusts me when I see people try to make it taboo to question the narrative.…

Every political movement goes sideways when it gains mass popularity.

I don't know if this is because the successful narratives tend to enrich some entrenched interest, psychopaths rise to the top, negative-sum games have popular appeal, the average person isn't smart enough to fit nuanced opinions in their head, humans are herd animals, or some mix of all of these. But whatever it is, whenever any grassroots movement gains the primetime spotlight, it invariably finds the wrong answer and runs with it.

Hope and Change turned into justifying drone strikes and persecuting Snowden. The Tea Party turned into supporting the most despotic anti-American president in recent history. The recent Democratic mandate is turning into more bullshit "gun control" rather than staying focused on real hardships caused by several decades of economic destruction. The Libertarian party is teetering at the edge of cryptofascism, just waiting for a hint of power (said as a libertarian).

Trying to argue nuance with any supporters will get you labeled as an other and summarily rejected. Even right here my comment was downvoted for what? Pointing out that Black Lives Matter is intrinsically racist? It's right in the name! Perhaps some of that racism is needed for motivation, but pointing it out runs up against the cognitive dissonance of "racism" being unequivocally bad.

Seemingly the best you can do is have such discussions with friends who won't immediately write you off, although you'll often run into the same roadblock there. My own take on BLM is that it's not meant for me, and that's fine. I wish them well and hope they don't get too derailed by self-defeating means.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#49

Post by kerng »

Google4567 wrote: post #25
bopbeepboop wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is particularly galling: LeBron et al talk about how they won’t back down confronting wrongs! — except for China, who is actually racist and actually abusing human rights, right now. He shut up, sat down about that and read the script like he was told. It’s beating your wife because you’re scared to confront real issues — and I don’t respect that behavior from pampered circus acts.

Lebron James, a black man in America, spoke out on issues affecting black men in America. He did not speak out on issues in China, nor does he speak out on issues affecting the First Nations in Canada, the Native Americans in America, the Aboriginals in Australia, and neither did he protest injustices in Africa, Europe nor the Middle East. Terrible behavior indeed not shouldering every injustice in the world.

Yes, but the point is that he should speak up, because he is in a position of power to help change things.

Re: Nearly half of Americans changed sports viewing habits because of social justice

#50

Post by jmeister »

Eleopteryx wrote: post #23
jmeister wrote: post #2

Good. People watch sports to escape from everything else. “Shut up and dribble” is the way to go.

Strange comment. I have to imagine that the part you find "good" is the lowered viewership? Or what is the "good" part to which you're referring?

People are voting with their TV remotes. Now the sports orgs have to wake up and stop politicizing their content.
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