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C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

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Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#31

Post by nikanj »

goto11 wrote: post #14
lwansbrough wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allegedly there's an upgrade path from .NET 4.8 to .NET 5.

The upgrade path is massive rewrites, something most business are wary of. For good reasons. MS really made a grave mistake by coupling the evolution of the C# language to the .NET version. This means all projects on the .NET framework is now also stuck with an obsolete language version for no good reason. It is becoming a a lot less fun to be a C# developer because you more often will have to work with obsolete tool…

Your programming language either dies young, or it lives long enough to become the very legacy crud it sought to replace.

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#32

Post by meibo »

zwieback wrote: post #15
binarynate wrote: post #13

I think that C# is underrated. Although TypeScript is my default language choice for most programming, C# / .NET is my choice for cases where: - high performance is important - or interop with native libraries is required (because C#'s DllImport attribute makes that super simple) Another benefit is that C# is syntactically similar to TypeScript (they were both designed by Anders Hejlsberg after all), so switching bet…

C# is my goto for Windows, for sure. Is the native interop good in Linux as well? I've never even considered anything like that, would probably gravitate to C++ since that's what I'm familiar with but would seriously consider Go or Java in non-Windows situations.

C# on Linux, as of the past 2 or 3 years, has been consistently improving with great tooling, good interop, is open source(MIT) and has the ability to package "native" versions of your app that contain the runtime at negligible space costs for distribution or deployment.

Give .NET 5 on Linux a try, you'll be surprised!

For me, the work this team has been doing is the example of the positive "change" Microsoft has brought to the open source space. A stellar language with great infrastructure.

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#33

Post by dataflow »

binarynate wrote: post #13

I think that C# is underrated. Although TypeScript is my default language choice for most programming, C# / .NET is my choice for cases where: - high performance is important - or interop with native libraries is required (because C#'s DllImport attribute makes that super simple) Another benefit is that C# is syntactically similar to TypeScript (they were both designed by Anders Hejlsberg after all), so switching bet…

A bit of a tangent but is it possible yet to compile C# to native code easily (like calling a normal compiler on the command-line)? Last time I checked I needed to jump through a bunch of hoops through Visual Studio, and create some XML or other nonsense. I don't get why they've made it so hard compared to just compiling managed code.

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#34

Post by DownGoat »

dataflow wrote: post #33
binarynate wrote: post #13

I think that C# is underrated. Although TypeScript is my default language choice for most programming, C# / .NET is my choice for cases where: - high performance is important - or interop with native libraries is required (because C#'s DllImport attribute makes that super simple) Another benefit is that C# is syntactically similar to TypeScript (they were both designed by Anders Hejlsberg after all), so switching bet…

A bit of a tangent but is it possible yet to compile C# to native code easily (like calling a normal compiler on the command-line)? Last time I checked I needed to jump through a bunch of hoops through Visual Studio, and create some XML or other nonsense. I don't get why they've made it so hard compared to just compiling managed code.

It is super easy with dotnet core. The new CLI is pretty simple, you use it as a package manager and compiler. Visual Studio also uses the CLI to run and debug dotnet core projects. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#35

Post by Cshelton »

keithnz wrote: post #10
whoisthemachine wrote: post #9

To me, the benefit of "Target-typed new expressions" is more with bringing consistency to class-scope member declarations and method-scope member declarations, so these two can look the same, and a programmer only has to read one way of declaring new members in C#: public class MyClass { private readonly MyDependency _myDependency = new(); public void MyMethodThatDoesWork() { MyVariable variable = new(); } } As oppos…

I can't see var going anywhere, many times you aren't directly creating a new object, but getting a generated object from something ( like linq) which tends to have more complicated type signatures.

I hate hate hate var.

Sure, in your own IDE, and reading the code you just wrote, no problem. But when doing code reviews and jumping all over, I want to see the type right there. Nothing more frustrating than reviewing a PR with var's all over. This isn't even up for debate anymore... No more var!

It is frustrating to still see var as the recommended way by Microsoft... You can even put in a rule to format the document and add explicit types as well on save. So complicated type signatures for linq aren't a problem!

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#36

Post by thrower123 »

bob1029 wrote: post #29
belinder wrote: post #2

Unfortunately the new tricks can't be used when the codebase is still stuck on .net framework :(

There are many paths out of hell. Check out the windows compatibility pack for all things active directory, WCF & System.Drawing: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/porting/windows... Winforms is probably a no-go on migration, but you should definitely check out Blazor if you want to develop any new business apps. We have constructed some incredibly complex business dashboards using this framework and cant…

I'm pretty sure WinForms is being migrated. I've built dotnet 5 WinForms apps, anyway. At least on Windows - I wouldn't bet on a Linux Gtk/Qt port any time soon.

WPF is probably dead though.

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#37

Post by spaetzleesser »

danielovichdk wrote: post #19

I have been programming with c# since 2000 i think. But I do not like where the languages is going. It is becoming way to loose in a sense and it seems that it wants more than it should. If you want to do functional programming, pick a fp language. If you want to do dynamic typed programming pick a dp language. Sure you can mix some things in, but c# is becoming way to scattered imo. And it's not pretty i think.

I think for a lot of devs having a multiparadigm language is the only way to explore new things. For the stuff I am working on it’s not really feasible to add new languages but you can add FP concepts slowly because C# supports it. That would also explain the popularity of C++ because it allows gradual transition.

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#38

Post by sumnole »

danielovichdk wrote: post #19

I have been programming with c# since 2000 i think. But I do not like where the languages is going. It is becoming way to loose in a sense and it seems that it wants more than it should. If you want to do functional programming, pick a fp language. If you want to do dynamic typed programming pick a dp language. Sure you can mix some things in, but c# is becoming way to scattered imo. And it's not pretty i think.

Personally, I enjoy C# becoming a multi-paradigms language like Common Lisp. Multiple inheritance and a good macro system would help close the gap. I don't need safety guards in my language, I'm looking for the right options when I need them.

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#39

Post by wk_end »

nycdotnet wrote: post #24
keithnz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see var going anywhere, many times you aren't directly creating a new object, but getting a generated object from something ( like linq) which tends to have more complicated type signatures.

Agreed that `var` isn't going anywhere, but this feature's best use case is with complex generics/enumerables and things like anonymous tuple types. For example: // old: var x = new List > { new KeyValuePair ("a", 1), new KeyValuePair ("b", 2) }; // new var x = new List > { new("a", 1), new("b", 2) };

Wow, when I (only a C# dabbler) read about this feature in the article I thought it sounded incredibly silly, but this really sells it. Was there really no better way to create tuples before?

Re: C# 9 top-level programs and target-typed expressions

#40

Post by my123 »

thrower123 wrote: post #36
bob1029 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many paths out of hell. Check out the windows compatibility pack for all things active directory, WCF & System.Drawing: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/porting/windows... Winforms is probably a no-go on migration, but you should definitely check out Blazor if you want to develop any new business apps. We have constructed some incredibly complex business dashboards using this framework and cant…

I'm pretty sure WinForms is being migrated. I've built dotnet 5 WinForms apps, anyway. At least on Windows - I wouldn't bet on a Linux Gtk/Qt port any time soon. WPF is probably dead though.

WPF is not dead, it got open-sourced and was ported to .NET Core 3.1 onwards.
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