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Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

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21–30 of 103 posts

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#21
post #5

I wonder if social media had the potential to be a force of good or if it was doomed from the start. I'd like to run an AB experiment where social media companies didn't optimize for engagement. And maybe an AB experiment where they tried to optimize for healthy usage, even if it harmed engagement.

> I'd like to run an AB experiment where social media companies didn't optimize for engagement. And maybe an AB experiment where they tried to optimize for healthy usage, even if it harmed engagement.

This is just a theory but my fear is that social media that's optimized for "healthy usage" probably looked more like the forum and blog culture that social media killed.

Optimizing for engagement means you basically have a genetic algorithm on your hands for surfacing the content with the most "viral-potential." Eventually that stuff eats the healthy parts of the internet because people inevitably talk about the viral stuff that's happening, which means your healthy-use forum is nonetheless revolving around the conversation in the viral centers.

From there it's a matter of time before people start going directly to the viral source to keep up with the context and conversation. And once they're there, because it optimizes for engagement, it crowds out their use of everything else.

So there's a natural selective pressure here. Optimizing for engagement/addiction gets you a network effect that leads to overshadowing any other type of socializing. Unless there's some mechanism to actively select against virality and engagement they will naturally rise to the top even independent of ad-impression incentives.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#22

What I'm not seeing is what is going on in the lives of these people that fosters such negative behavior. These studies almost never ask questions like "Are you being abused by your parents?" or "Have you been molested?" There is this presumption that they engage in malicious behavior simply because they think they can get away with it, basically. It's an "idle hands are the devil's workshop" theory and generally lac…

>These studies almost never ask questions like "Are you being abused by your parents?" or "Have you been molested?"

Wouldn't there be worse behavior problems than internet bullying if that was the case? Like, physical bullying or violence or worse?

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#23
Being online leads to a deep mental disturbance that just grows and grows.

It's like you're hungry and you're reading through an endless stack of menus with this weird idea that the menus will sate your hunger. And you just keep on reading, about sandwiches, pizza and Chinese food. But none of the reading helps. You just keep on getting hungrier.

I think that the Buddhists talk about this state, in their version of Hell.

It's only natural that this would lead to "demoniacal" behavior.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#25
post #22

What I'm not seeing is what is going on in the lives of these people that fosters such negative behavior. These studies almost never ask questions like "Are you being abused by your parents?" or "Have you been molested?" There is this presumption that they engage in malicious behavior simply because they think they can get away with it, basically. It's an "idle hands are the devil's workshop" theory and generally lac…

>These studies almost never ask questions like "Are you being abused by your parents?" or "Have you been molested?" Wouldn't there be worse behavior problems than internet bullying if that was the case? Like, physical bullying or violence or worse?

Not necessarily.

I was molested and raped as a child. Most people had no idea.

I did attempt suicide at age 17 and I began making two grades per year below a C starting after I was raped at the age of twelve and I spent time in an insane asylum.

But I also was one of the top three students of my graduating high school class, had the highest SAT scores of my graduating high school class, won a National Merit Scholarship (to UGA, in fact) based on those scores, etc.

Most people are not talented at identifying indicators of abuse and people in abusive situations are often doing everything in their power to find some high road solution because they know they are at risk of being blamed and ending up in jail or some shit.

When I was institutionalized in my teens, I was initially presumed to be a badly behaved teenager. I distinctly remember having a conversation with a staff member who assumed I was just some asshole teenager and they markedly changed their tune when they found out I was a victim of being molested and raped and I was suicidal and that was why I was hospitalized, not because I was doing bad things to other people.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#26

What I'm not seeing is what is going on in the lives of these people that fosters such negative behavior. These studies almost never ask questions like "Are you being abused by your parents?" or "Have you been molested?" There is this presumption that they engage in malicious behavior simply because they think they can get away with it, basically. It's an "idle hands are the devil's workshop" theory and generally lac…

In this field, sending out surveys with "objective" questions to a large amount of people to collect data is the only way to get your research deemed "scientific". I think everyone would agree that the role of the scientists and writers of these pop-psych articles should be to interpret the point and help readers come to an insightful and true conclusion like yours, but really everyone in the psychology and journalism fields are forced to run a "I'm just reporting the facts like my boss wants me to" mantra to keep their job.

It's kind of sad that this academic system makes it so only well-paid therapists get to do that, because of course looking at the current state of affairs in the world and coming to and reporting on and building insight on the logical conclusion that only hurt people hurt people isn't "scientific research" because the peers in your field only allow themselves and others to repeat what the numbers in the excel spreadsheet say. The psychology and objective journalism fields are great examples of dysfunctional academic systems.

I like Alice Miller's hot take on her field in her book "For Your Own Good". I'm just going to straight up copy her text:

Those who swear by statistical studies and gain their psychological knowledge from those sources will see my efforts to understand the children Christiane and Adolf [Hitler] as unnecessary and irrelevant. They would have to be given statistical proof that a given number of cases of child abuse later produced almost the same number of murderers. This proof cannot be provided, however, for the following reasons. Alice Miller lists off 1) child abuse takes place in secret 2) testimony of victims on their own suffered child abuse is often very flawed to protect their parents 3) experts in criminology have already noted this trend in their scientific research

Even if statistical data confirm my own conclusions, I do not consider them a reliable source because they are often based on uncritical assumptions and ideas that are either meaningless (such as "a sheltered childhood"), vague, ambiguous ("received a lot of love"), or deceptive ("the father was strict but fair"), or that even contain obvious contradictions ("he was loved and spoiled"). This is why I do not care to rely on conceptual systems whose gaps are so large that the truth escapes through them, but rather prefer to make the attempt ... to take a different route. I am not searching for statistical objectivity but for the subjectivity of the victim in question, to the degree that my empathy permits.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#27
> The study also found that adolescent males are more likely to engage in cyberbullying than females, aligning with past studies that show aggressive behaviors tend to be more male driven.

for a certain definition of aggression. but social media bullying is a Mean Girls phenomenon. it's reputation and character assassination, which is aggressive behavior. male aggression tends to be physical and they spend more time playing video games, while females spend more time on social media. as a result, girls are seeing higher rates of depression compared to boys.

here's the research on this topic that Jonathan Haidt and other academics are maintaining;

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w-HOfseF2wF9YIpXwUUtP65-...

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#28

> The study also found that adolescent males are more likely to engage in cyberbullying than females, aligning with past studies that show aggressive behaviors tend to be more male driven. for a certain definition of aggression. but social media bullying is a Mean Girls phenomenon. it's reputation and character assassination, which is aggressive behavior. male aggression tends to be physical and they spend more time…

But if you remove the ability to be physically aggressive, would you expect the bullying to stop?

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#29
post #8

What I'm not seeing is what is going on in the lives of these people that fosters such negative behavior. These studies almost never ask questions like "Are you being abused by your parents?" or "Have you been molested?" There is this presumption that they engage in malicious behavior simply because they think they can get away with it, basically. It's an "idle hands are the devil's workshop" theory and generally lac…

I would bet on a large scale it's not people who are being abused, just people who are miserable and unhappy with their lives for whatever reason.

> for whatever reason

Because we've given every single person a voice and the promise that their opinion is just as important as everyone else's, despite their understanding or their qualifications, and it has made people collectively entitled and vitriolic.

Couple this with absolutely batshit insane current events for the last ~5 years and you have massive divide.

Then multiply that by the expansion of technology into every day lives, where everyone is connected and has an up-to-date, moment-by-moment window into literally thousands of other lives, and people get extremely detached from their own selves and their own beliefs. They stop thinking for themselves, almost entirely.

Not to mention things like Twitter, with quirks like "you have to fit very heavy conversations into cute little limited messages" so as to even further increase the pressure on public discourse.

All of this friction creates heat, so to speak, and people start realizing that outside their circles are people who are so foreign and different that they MUST be idiot enemies, and thus everyone begins to despise each other, categorizing people and using assumptions about their character against them, all formed from a few blurbs of random information either from context or a few textboxes on a social media profile.

It's just like when one is unable to effectively communicate, they often resort to violence. I firmly believe this is the same thing happening online - it's just a huge, crowded shouting match and since nothing ever happens despite how loud you're screaming, you have to resort to other means to get a rise out of someone else.

I'm not a particularly happy person and I really, _really_ dislike interacting with other people, so I can certainly understand why some of this happens. Life sucks for a lot of people, and being able to express that whilst having the buffer of a computer screen and ethernet cable between you and the other person is certainly a "great power, great responsibility" type of situation.

Re: Social media addiction linked to cyberbullying

#30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's only adolescents. You can see rich Google employees bullying poorer developers on Twitter in the name of social justice. Some of the bullies must be at least 50 years old. Social media and Twitter are bad because you can form virtual tribes and yield to age-old instincts. The more individualistic people are, the less they join those tribes. Individualists tend to be grumpy though, for which they ar…

In recent years, I have found my internet experiences enormously frustrating because I used to have real friends via internet. We exchanged Christmas presents. They helped me sort out how to raise my challenging children. I always had someone to talk with any time of the day or night when I was having insomnia or whatever. And I haven't had stuff like in recent years. I just thought it was me because I spent a few ye…

I think partially it's that mainstream social media has become a hell-hole.

I've found HN to be much better for discussion in general (recognizing that this is not the case for everyone), and have participated in IRC rooms and whatnot where if I spent more time I could probably consider the people there friends, while still retaining individualism.

I tend towards grumpy isolationism however, so I may not be a good standard.

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