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Advice From An Old Programmer

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Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#91

Post by schleyfox »

russellperry wrote: post #60

Zed's a strong cup of coffee and guys like him generally play a really healthy role in the community they are a part of, driving discussions in directions they might not have taken and playing the part of Gadfly at Large -- every community needs a Zed to keep from becoming complacent. "Rails is a Ghetto" notwithstanding, Zed's writing is always worth engaging even when you strongly disagree. In that respect he's alwa…

Actually, I tend to think "Rails is a Ghetto" is one of his most beneficial works. It was angry and juvenile at times, but I think it did help make rails grow up. It also called out a lot of the fanboy-ism in the community and helped people who actually cared about engineering to rise.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#92

Post by ori_b »

rdouble wrote: post #7

People who can code in the world of technology companies are a dime a dozen and get no respect. People who can code in biology, medicine, government, sociology, physics, history, and mathematics are respected and can do amazing things to advance those disciplines. This is a nice sentiment but as someone who has been a programmer for biology and medical research, it's not true. It's just like any other mediocre progra…

his is a nice sentiment but as someone who has been a programmer for biology and medical research, it's not true. It's just like any other mediocre programming job,

I think what he's saying is that a biologist that can program can vastly increase their output. He's not saying that being a programmer that works under biologists in a biology lab is better than being a programmer in a tech company.

And I agree. Being able to hack scripts for number crunching, quick simulations, and so on is vastly useful when you're not working as a programmer.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#93

Post by a3_nm »

StavrosK wrote: post #83
shin_lao wrote: post #36

Programming as an intellectual activity is the only art Programming isn't an art. Programming is a craft. The difference is that you can use a craft to make art, but crafting isn't always artistic. Let's not get over our heads and consider ourselves artists because we can code...

I don't disagree with you, but painting, sculpting, playing an instrument, writing, etc, all crafts, by that definition.

For musical instruments, at least, there are clearly defined technical exercises with no artistic value. They are usually necessary, but not sufficient, to be able to perform artistically.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#94

Post by zedshaw »

rdouble wrote: post #7

People who can code in the world of technology companies are a dime a dozen and get no respect. People who can code in biology, medicine, government, sociology, physics, history, and mathematics are respected and can do amazing things to advance those disciplines. This is a nice sentiment but as someone who has been a programmer for biology and medical research, it's not true. It's just like any other mediocre progra…

Hmm, you really got a problem with this don't you?

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/i1j67/advice_fr...

There you are on reddit, saying the same thing, and ignoring the fact that you're confounding your experience as a Biology postdoc with you use of code. Hopefully, as a scientist you know what confounding is. :-)

P.S. I'm the author.

EDIT: point at the exact comment.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#95

Post by zedshaw »

shin_lao wrote: post #36

Programming as an intellectual activity is the only art Programming isn't an art. Programming is a craft. The difference is that you can use a craft to make art, but crafting isn't always artistic. Let's not get over our heads and consider ourselves artists because we can code...

Oh, I'm so glad you, the one arbiter of all that is art, is able to correct our misunderstanding of the definition of "art".

The truth is, you can't define art, so in the same way I can use paint to paint my house, or use paint to create a portrait, I can use programming for art or just as a day job.

Finally, everything that requires skill has craft, even art.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#97

Post by shareme »

zedshaw wrote: post #94
rdouble wrote: post #7

People who can code in the world of technology companies are a dime a dozen and get no respect. People who can code in biology, medicine, government, sociology, physics, history, and mathematics are respected and can do amazing things to advance those disciplines. This is a nice sentiment but as someone who has been a programmer for biology and medical research, it's not true. It's just like any other mediocre progra…

Hmm, you really got a problem with this don't you? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/i1j67/advice_fr... There you are on reddit, saying the same thing, and ignoring the fact that you're confounding your experience as a Biology postdoc with you use of code. Hopefully, as a scientist you know what confounding is. :-) P.S. I'm the author. EDIT: point at the exact comment.

I can confirm that post-docs have it harder than the staff that use programming as a tool to 'route-around them'

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#98

Post by zedshaw »

gaius wrote: post #56
programminggeek wrote: post #4

You know, half the reason Zed Shaw is so well known is not just that he is a prolific coder, but that he is quite an excellent writer as well. Well done Zed. I always appreciate what you write.

Well, other than that he's completely mistaken about the career advice he offers here. I'd be very curious to know if he's ever been the highly-respected programmer in a science lab, or personally knows anyone who is. My science friends tell me the job doesn't exist; any code that needs writing, a grad student will do it sufficiently well (on top of their lab work) for no more money.

Well, good thing you gave up rather than using code to solve hard problems other scientists in your field can't solve.

Re: Advice From An Old Programmer

#99

Post by ihodes »

While I'm yet a young programmer, the primary paid experiences/internships/jobs I've had with programming have been in the biomedical/bioinformatics field. My first day on the job? Did probably all the work they'd expected of me the entire summer (all using a simple "programming" trick with Excel) then proceeded to write them a few program to make their data-entry/processing jobs a lot easier and more precise. I was like a magician.

It was pretty cool.

I've had nowhere near as much experience as Zed or many of the people replying on here, but my experience in different labs and situations has been similar.

On another related note; I was talking with an international finance/investment profession when I expressed my dual interests in finance and neuroscience. She immediately made the point that I'd be infinitely more valuable in finance with a hard science background (particularly in financing the field my background was in).

Moral: Domain knowledge and niche/cross-discipline expertise is valuable.

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