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Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

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51–60 of 114 posts

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#51
Back in 2000, I remember that a PC game I was working on, was slower in NT, than Windows 98 or was it ME. Explanation from Microsoft (they ware the publisher too) was that in NT they had to check every vertex index, whether it's out of bounds, otherwise one somehow might be able to read memory which he's not supposed to. And couple of other things too.

I guess it might be a valid concern. Though I would love if WebGL becomes adopted by everyone.

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#52
post #4

For those who think that HTML/CSS/JS will replace native apps, just take a look at Microsoft, Apple and Google (yes, Google - no thanks for ditching the open standard h264 on Chrome). Standards, when they threaten to disrupt existing powerful players, will be ignored, delayed or sabotaged. Thus innovation that requires standards-based clients even with nimble outfits like Apple, Google, Mozilla, and Facebook pushing…

>thanks for ditching the open standard h264 on Chrome I think that someone may have lied to you when they explained the words "open" or "standard". Also, why am I "looking at" MSFT/AAPL/GOOG for in relation to HTML/CSS/JS apps? They fact that many are still native? Google's apps for iOS are web based, and I'm sure iCloud apps for Android will be web based. Microsoft just got done demoing HTML5/CSS3 applications for W…

who gives a shit about the quality of his comment.

your mother said to get off the computer

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>thanks for ditching the open standard h264 on Chrome I think that someone may have lied to you when they explained the words "open" or "standard". Also, why am I "looking at" MSFT/AAPL/GOOG for in relation to HTML/CSS/JS apps? They fact that many are still native? Google's apps for iOS are web based, and I'm sure iCloud apps for Android will be web based. Microsoft just got done demoing HTML5/CSS3 applications for W…

who gives a shit about the quality of his comment. your mother said to get off the computer

I don't understand. Did I offend someone, was I out of line?

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#54
post #50

Wow, this thread is turning into another security-clueless developer freakout. Microsoft very clearly laid out reasons why they believe that WebGL presents possible security vulnerabilities. While GPU security isn't my area of expertise, the driver issues seem very plausible. If someone wants to actually address Microsoft's points in this thread then that would be great.

Well either Google and Mozilla are knowingly shipping insecure code or Microsoft is, to some degree, wrong. Given the history of the organisations in question I'm going to assume Microsoft wrong or not telling the whole story until we hear a response from Moz or Google.

This is an argument from ignorance and, knowing engineers at both Google and Microsoft, I have no reason to believe that the Google engineers are any more competent than Microsoft. I do know that the Google security team is smaller than Microsoft's.

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#55

Wow, this thread is turning into another security-clueless developer freakout. Microsoft very clearly laid out reasons why they believe that WebGL presents possible security vulnerabilities. While GPU security isn't my area of expertise, the driver issues seem very plausible. If someone wants to actually address Microsoft's points in this thread then that would be great.

that's not true. most comments agree with you. [edit: and even if it was earlier, only a couple are anti-MS in total]

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#56
post #46
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitively an issue. Is there a way around graphic drivers in the kernel? Userspace graphics drivers could be interesting if they were possible.

AFAIK both Windows (WDDM) and Linux (DRI) use userspace drivers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model

You're definitely correct about Windows (it was something I was excited about in Vista), but I'm not sure about Linux. Looking at the Nvidia GLX drivers for my Linux machine, it still seems like quite a hefty kernel module. I can't really examine it, though, because it's not open source.

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#57

Wow, this thread is turning into another security-clueless developer freakout. Microsoft very clearly laid out reasons why they believe that WebGL presents possible security vulnerabilities. While GPU security isn't my area of expertise, the driver issues seem very plausible. If someone wants to actually address Microsoft's points in this thread then that would be great.

that's not true. most comments agree with you. [edit: and even if it was earlier, only a couple are anti-MS in total]

Not when I posted the comment.

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#58
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out my application: https://brainbrowser.cbrain.mcgill.ca (sorry if it's a little hard to use, I'm working on documentation but my user base usually knows what all the stuff means.) It's in use by neuroscientist for a varity of stuff. I have users in almost all continents. (I need people in Australia and African Countries ;p) There are many games that could be done with WebGL as it is today. Some little RTS gam…

Your app is a great example as the requirements are very finite. Web games on the other hand seem better suited for 2D, since the requirements for 3D games are much larger.

You are there definitively some things that will need to change for 3D games to be possible in WebGL. LocalStorage limits (unless using the Chrome WebStore) is preventing games from store let say 300mb of data into your browser for later use. For bigger games we are talking about GB. The audio api is also in flux right now and isn't ready for prime time in my view but it's getting there. WebCL is another thing that could help. Game physics will probably make good use of WebCL.

But at the same time, games that can run on your iPad should be able to be made in WebGL with not to many issues. I'm looking at games like the new Age of Empires online (since I played that not to long ago). I feel that it's a game which could be implemented using WebGL and a larger local storage limit and proper WebSocket support.

I'm sure you will find that I'm very optimistic but my app barely pushes the capabilities of WebGL and new javascript APIs.

Re: Microsoft refuses to endorse WebGL, labels it ‘harmful’

#60
post #50

Wow, this thread is turning into another security-clueless developer freakout. Microsoft very clearly laid out reasons why they believe that WebGL presents possible security vulnerabilities. While GPU security isn't my area of expertise, the driver issues seem very plausible. If someone wants to actually address Microsoft's points in this thread then that would be great.

Well either Google and Mozilla are knowingly shipping insecure code or Microsoft is, to some degree, wrong. Given the history of the organisations in question I'm going to assume Microsoft wrong or not telling the whole story until we hear a response from Moz or Google.

Microsoft has the perspective of the entire OS from top to bottom. Google and Firefox have the perspective of their respective applications.

Given the concerns Microsoft is voicing (and they aren't the first to voice them) are well below the application itself, I tend to trust Microsoft more on this one.

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