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Work peak and professional decline (2019)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#51

Post by ggm »

The vast majority of people I know in physically demanding labour are not looking forward to continuing work at the same pace past age 55, and by age 60-65 they're well over it.

The vast majority of people I know in mentally demanding labour tend to split 50/50 wanting to scale back, and wanting to continue as-is. The latter group tend to resent mandated ageist laws, which is understandable. The former, see them as an unimpeachable way to get off the train.

I know that my motivations in work have changed since I past 55, and as I approach 60, they are most definately not about doing as much, or the same kind of work.

I have perfectly adequate superannuation, and I don't expect to struggle. I also attend financial planning sessions from my funds, and get guidance on realistic income expectations post-work. FIRE is (in many ways) based on the same kind of information: when you do step back, after some intial bust of enthusiastic recreational or debt-clearing spending, most people reduce their core spend (but in the case of aged people, increase their health spend).

Doing nothing is fatal. Hobbies are not "it" for many people, volunteering, or some lower intensity part-time work is a perfectly rational thing to do, even if basically wealthy (I mean in context, having adequate income from your retirement planning. Not, being a FAANG class retiree)

Travel is often best done when younger. Its tiring. Young eyes need experiences. Old eyes can handle mostly memories and a few less intense ones. If you are an adrenalin junkie, none of this applies to you, and keep sky-diving as much as you can.

I definitely feel superceded in the workforce. I have a good position and respect (declining!) but I feel its time to step into a role which lets younger people come to the fore. You need to make way. You even need to let them make mistakes.

Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#53

Post by farnsworth »

iancmceachern wrote: post #40
rootusrootus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> low-efficiency vehicles Tangent: Are these actually low efficiency? Sure, 10 mpg (this is a more typical average, BTW, not 8 mpg) is terrible gas mileage ... for an average car. But a portable house that can drive down the interstate isn't just a car. Per pound, it doesn't seem that bad.

And when compared to air travel and hotel stays (which come with large water and heat costs associated with daily laundry) it's actually less of a carbon footprint.

People don't stay in hotels getting daily laundry for months at a time

Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#54

Post by NoPicklez »

I'm struggling to find anything meaningful in this article.

But it does remind me of a few chapters within Yuval Noah Harari's "21 Lessons for the 21st Century" book which I'd recommend everyone read. But essentially he talks about how we're currently seeing a large influx and requirement for digital or technology related jobs, which will over time take some but not all jobs from traditional jobs (not up for debate). Now many of the people who have worked in traditional jobs such as check outs, clerks, factory workers etc will likely be higher in age and will struggle to reskill to other jobs, not just due to the change in technical requirements but purely due to age and our ability to learn completely new tasks.

Fast forward and the discussion talks about how the current and new workforce might be expected to change jobs many times more than previous generations due to such a rapidly changing world. He therefore raises the point that we all may need to reskill multiple times during our lives and will require significant cognitive strain on older people who may have previously been able to master their professional for decades.

Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#56

Post by AussieWog93 »

paxys wrote: post #44
etrautmann wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I share your antipathy for low-efficiency vehicles, why is traveling around the national parks of the west a sad way to spend your retirement years?

Exactly. The need to be productive for society until the day you die may have been a requirement in the past, but encouraging that today just sounds depressing.

To be fair, the definition of "productivity" has changed a lot since the start of the industrial revolution too, from "helping your community make ends meet" to "engaging in soul-crushing, inhuman labour to make a group of wealthy investors who actively campaign against your well-being even wealthier".

Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#57

Post by hourislate »

NoPicklez wrote: post #54

I'm struggling to find anything meaningful in this article. But it does remind me of a few chapters within Yuval Noah Harari's "21 Lessons for the 21st Century" book which I'd recommend everyone read. But essentially he talks about how we're currently seeing a large influx and requirement for digital or technology related jobs, which will over time take some but not all jobs from traditional jobs (not up for debate).…

>He therefore raises the point that we all may need to reskill multiple times during our lives and will require significant cognitive strain on older people who may have previously been able to master their professional for decades.

Maybe we need to usher in retirement at a much earlier age, 55 perhaps. Of course you can keep working but could also retire if there is that desire.

My view is we are all going to be out of work soon enough. Sam Altman agrees with me. Probably in the next 2-3 decades for sure.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/17/openais-altman-ai-will-make-...

Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#58

Post by el_dev_hell »

fxtentacle wrote: post #15
cek wrote: post #2

There's no real data behind this article. It's basically ageism fueled by self-doubt.

Yeah, that and weird examples. Around 1860, so roughly 160 years ago, Darwin felt old in his 50-ies. But that kind of omits the fact that in our modern day and age, the elderly have a lot more technical help available. For Darwin, it was a decision of leaving his family behind to go on a months-long trip. Nowadays, it'd be a 6 hour flight and you can call your friends while you're on vacation. So the risk/reward trad…

I really enjoyed the article overall.

The section on Darwin was an eyebrow raiser. It makes sense to include someone like Darwin (very interesting and well known), but he's not a great example to compare to "normal" people (like the couple mentioned in the opening paragraph).

A 50 year old in the 1800s whose job was catching a ship to the other side of the planet is a little different when compared to a factory worker, software engineer, doctor, etc.

Also, what the fuck is this off-hand remark:

> Unfortunately, Mendel’s work was published in an obscure academic journal and Darwin never saw it—and in any case, Darwin did not have the mathematical ability to understand it.

Re: Work peak and professional decline (2019)

#59

Post by aaron695 »

caeril wrote: post #10

Related: The notion of "retirement" is a relatively recent invention. Traditionally, when you were too old to work the farm or prove the theorem (sorry, cognitive decline is a well-documented thing, and tends to coincide with physical decline[1]), you would "retire" to a productive life in less-demanding pursuits: caretaking of the grandkids, woodworking, food preservation, writing, etc. It's important to maintain ho…

> such a path seems somehow "better" than popping Metformin in front of a television in a Boca Raton retirement community

The person who doesn't pop Metformin will obviously have retired earlier and be in that retirement community earlier.

> tooling around the country in an 8 MPG RV.

Once again the the person who doesn't pop Metformin will be crippled sooner and mentally declined sooner. (Assuming you are degrading tv and RV's)

So I have no idea of the point on this bit.

I also think you romanticise what happens to people "too old to work the farm". You can go check it out today in many developing countries.

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