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Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

theintercept.com

241–250 of 281 posts

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#241
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if that level of "too many packages" is the only way the driver could avoid getting a demerit for under performance? What if a livable wage is only possible if you quote more packages than is reasonable due to the intense pressure amazon has on the contract delivery market?

What if 80% of drivers don’t do this? Maybe the other 20% need to just get a different job if they aren’t able to avoid under performance without resorting to time saving tricks.

I think the percentages need work since if 20% of the tens of thousands of drivers you employ/contract do a thing then clearly your hiring policies are pretty terrible. If you worked as a dev and 20% of your co-workers end up committing corporate espionage then the place you work is almost certainly Los Alamos.

But I get your point - the issue, I think, is that under-performance in a job role should be a rarity. You should be hiring people that are likely going to comfortably exceed your minimum expectations and compensate them appropriately. If someone isn't a fit for a position it's most optimal for the company to never hire them (to avoid the cost of training and any capital costs associated with the new employee) but, barring that, it's optimal for both parties to break off the arrangement ASAP since the employer isn't getting the value they expect for their cost and the employee is going to be getting a whole lot of stress.

If it's the case where a significant portion of drivers are marked as underperforming then you're either 1) being dishonest about the job expectations in an effort to penalize decently efficient employees wrongfully or 2) presenting the position in a misleading or confused manner and not properly screening employees - either way it's on the employer, not the employee, if the issue is widespread.

It really seems like the issue with strict performance requirements in warehouses and with drivers is pretty widespread so I'd first look to attribute this to amazon rather than the folks they are hiring and, with assistance from inference along with lots of personal biases, I'm pretty certain Amazon is using artificially inflated performance targets as a way to minimize paid compensation while cycling through the glut of available labour knowing that, in a lot of states, being accepted to a position after submitting an offer and refusing it will result in a discontinuation of unemployment and a constant stream of applications is required to maintain unemployment checks.

A business can essentially hold you hostage with the US unemployment system by under-selling the actual job expectations and then using the threat of being fired with cause for performance reasons to complicate your chances of getting back on insurance.

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#242
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rogue contractor who has had sexual misconduct charges leveled at them for urinating in public - and let that be a lesson to all you other contractors to stay in line . Hooray dystopias.

stay in line - as in: bring more than one bottle to piss in so you don't have to hastily dump and re-use it? Ick...

I think stay in line - at least the way I'm thinking of it, is a lot more negative than just bring an extra bottle. It's a demand for employees to skirt the rules or else they'll be punished and if they're caught skirting the rules they'll also be punished - oh and since you're a contractor you lack any rights normally afforded employees.

Basically, sit down, shut up and take it - we've got the power and if you try and object we'll can you and replace you faster than you can blink. And we might even find a way to make sure you can't qualify for unemployment.

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#243
post #25

> According to Recode, the suspicious tweets in fact came at the behest of Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, who had recently conveyed disappointment to Amazon officials that the company was not pushing back against criticisms that he considered misleading. > But company personnel think Amazon’s aggressive actions on Twitter are “embarrassing.” It's amazing how tone-deaf Bezos sounds.

It's not surprising. The biggest danger of having tremendous wealth and/or power seems to be that you can no longer accept and integrate valid criticism from others.

Which seems to apply to some of our politicians too. Like the reply from Elizabeth Warren saying that maybe Amazon should be split up because then maybe they wouldn't have time to criticize elected officials. Or otherwise "stop criticizing me or I'll make you hurt". Not very nice coming from a political figure in a democracy.

I did find Amazon's responses to be tone deaf at best (mostly just disagreeing with them) but her reply to be much worse.

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#244
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually was glad to see a corporation tweeting what its actual intentions were.

But doesn’t their post qualify as gaslighting? The tweets said peeing in bottles due to extreme performance quotas does not happen and it very very clearly happens all the time.

Amazon is a big employer: what's the percentage of Amazon's employees engage in that? What's the percentage of employees of any other large employer, that directly competes with Amazon (so same market) that engage in similar activities?

Peeing in bottles sounds good as a click bait title but it's easy to not see the forest from the trees if you just focus on one example.

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#245
post #4

For me, the recent (petty) twitter activity of @amazonnews was the final push I needed to cut all ties with Amazon.

Really? I thought it was really refreshing to see a corporation not trying to kowtow to politicians. If Warren is saying stuff they find objectionable, call it out. If a business can't safely criticize a legislator on Twitter, that's pretty much giving up on free speech.

Agreed. I may not have agreed with most things Amazon twitter said but IMO it was definitely refreshing to see a company answering back instead of being just a punching bag mute for the politicians to score easy wins like "hey look how tough I am, I'm saying all these things about big bad , you should vote for me because of the emotional response you get from feeling less powerless" (although the latter part is rarely spoken).

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t really believe the peeing in bottles thing, do you?

This isn't new - Amazon workers have had to pee in bottles for years. From 2018: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-hav... This is just the same old Amazon - they optimize everything to the point that humans can't keep pace with their metrics without cutting corners.

Well, at some point they will have managed to remove all need for unskilled labor and then everyone will be happy, right? /s

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% believe that drivers pee in containers - heck, my grandfather and I used to do the same when fishing - they make containers with handles specifically made for this. That said, given that the firestorm has become very public, I would expect disgruntled (or any driver, they are wage slaves) drivers to be acting more conspicuous to draw more attention to the problem, which may temporarily inflate its visibility,…

Why wouldn't you just pee into the water into which you are fishing?

It was on the Detroit river, a major shipping lane and the boat was tiny, I’d be flashing everyone and I was a kid and self conscious about pissing in front of people, still am.

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#248
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused by the set of responses based on the idea "Well, lots of other people have awful working conditions, why are we picking on this particular billion dollar corporation?"

It's very much "whataboutism". Best case, it's tonedeaf and overly-dismissive. Worst case, it's a deliberate distraction. I try to follow Hanlon's Razor, so I'll go with the best case and just assume these people are unempathtic contrarians, instead of corporate shills.

Because the discussion is only focused on Amazon. If instead all such articles and complains would be "Amazon, among many other companies, give workers incentives to pee in bottles" then I would pay a lot more attention to it.

Because when you say " does " which is obviously to me not unique to that company then your message sounds like meant to provoke a certain feeling against a certain company, my "manipulation" alarms start ringing and, as a protection mechanism, I stop believing everything you say. By making at least an effort to make such reporting balanced, fair and accurate you have much higher chance to get me to care.

YMMV, maybe it works for other people tho.

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Amazon you're encouraged (and expected) to escalate early and escalate often. Amazon security did its job very well. >"The real security incident here is how did the intercept learn of that ticket as that should really be classified." Looks like someone from the security or PR departments took a picture of the ticket with their cellphone and sent them to the reporter. Security tickets are immediately encrypted and…

> At Amazon you're encouraged (and expected) to escalate early and escalate often One of the many reasons I’d never want to work there

Huh? This is a good thing. This is how security teams should be operating...

Re: Amazon security staff reported its own tweets as “suspicious,” fearing hack

#250
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I do mind them lying while they do it Sure, I sympathize with this. But one person's lies are another person's truth in this day and age, unfortunately.

You don’t really believe the peeing in bottles thing, do you?

I’m certain that every delivery or truck driver has peed in bottles and that most do it regularly.

It’s a giant hassle to do otherwise and peeing in a bottle ain’t that bad.

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