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The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

technologyreview.com

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Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#211

Post by dang »

sto_hristo wrote: post #199
dang wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post nationalistic flamewar comments to HN. Comments like this are destructive of the forum, regardless of your views on the underlying issues. Protecting the commons from disintegrating and destroying itself is the higher priority here, for what should be obvious reasons. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Your interpretation doesn't change the facts around it. WHO lost significant portion of its funding for a while because exactly of China's self-interest influence. But because others, like you, see that as "nationalistic" and "destructive", that effort was in vain and to this day the status quo remains the same and the end result is at hand - "nobody can find out what triggered the pandemic." My comment didn't disint…

When I say "protecting the commons" here, I mean that participants to HN need to post in a way that protects and enhances the forum, not contribute to destroying it. Everyone needs to do that regardless of how others behave, regardless of what the situation in the world is or you believe it is, or how strongly you feel about it.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#212

Post by dang »

2-tpg wrote: post #191
MilnerRoute wrote: post #91

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfiel... CBS News, yesterday: Kristian G. Andersen, director of the infectious disease genomics, translational research institute at Scripps Research, noted that "We know that the first epidemiologically linked cluster of cases came from the Hunan market and we know the virus was found in environmental samples — including animal cages — at the market," he said. "…

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=229... You and yorwba have been at it for a while now https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba Very interesting to see the rest of the network. What gave it away is that you are too intelligent to believe the narrative you are pushing.

You've broken the site guidelines egregiously with this. We ban accounts that do that. Please stick to the rules from now on: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#213

Post by 2-tpg »

dang wrote: post #212
2-tpg wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=229... You and yorwba have been at it for a while now https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba Very interesting to see the rest of the network. What gave it away is that you are too intelligent to believe the narrative you are pushing.

You've broken the site guidelines egregiously with this. We ban accounts that do that. Please stick to the rules from now on: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You can ban me then (or just let this be my last post).

This HN user spend a year blasting the lab leak hypothesis, going so far as to point to Wikipedia's allowed sources, to try to suppress a submitted link here. Claiming the submitted links are from far-right organizations, not even touching the content. They use similar arguments and text on different articles, such as a weird suspicious support and praise for Peter Daszak, or just snip news article quotes as their argument.

I deem such behavior enemies of truth-finding and sincere curiosity.

The other poster he was doing his one-two narrative building with 11 months ago, is still active (very active now), his latest posts when linking, being in defense of Xiongxian cotton, interspersed with cookie-cutter hacker-linux stuff (because lots of hackers do care about Chinese cotton...).

Even if not a troll network, it is acting indistinguishable from it.

If HN is a community with a fixed recognizable name, then I am allowed to figure out the history. Did this person wanted to defund the police? Did this person yelled that Bitcoin was a bubble hoax? Did this person spend the better part of a year copy-pasting talking points against a lab leak, which add nothing to the conversation? Know your history, so you don't repeat mistakes in the present. Such as going into debate with this user about animals at meat market being the source, when they are not interested in the truth, just pushing their politicized narrative.

I want to be in a community with nay-sayers, rule-breakers, divergent critical thinkers, people who actually debate and make their original points, not copy-paste popular media and shit on bitcoin. This isn't it. The only entropy for me here is from comments already flagged.

Yes, I was way out of line with this, no site should stand for it. It was meant to be my last post here. I would keep calling out posters like that as enemies to truth, science, and investigation, since I find this more important than guidelines, or average karma. So, should make my own site or find another community. I won't apologize, but do sincerely thank you for your strong community management, and I hope you will see less of this in the future.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#214

Post by lamontcg »

thowaway959125 wrote: post #195
lamontcg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Furin cleavage sites naturally occur in coronaviruses" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612... HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-UK1 both have them and they've likely evolved several times over in parallel evolution (or as the result of multiple infection and recombination maybe?)

Your article specifically states "not one acquired recently via recombination" unless it was an ancient strain. It is almost as if Sarbecovirus acquired portions of the Hipposideros genome. You'll note your article also says this did not come from pangolins or its closest bat relatives, which shoots down another media narrative. > Strains of SARS-CoV-2 (we also added sequences from the GISAID database) have furin cle…

That article pretty decisively refutes your idea that the furin cleavage site cannot come from evolution and implies a bioweapons research project. You can try to split hairs, but your argument is wrong.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#215

Post by dang »

2-tpg wrote: post #213
dang wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've broken the site guidelines egregiously with this. We ban accounts that do that. Please stick to the rules from now on: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You can ban me then (or just let this be my last post). This HN user spend a year blasting the lab leak hypothesis, going so far as to point to Wikipedia's allowed sources, to try to suppress a submitted link here. Claiming the submitted links are from far-right organizations, not even touching the content. They use similar arguments and text on different articles, such as a weird suspicious support and praise for Pe…

There's no evidence that those accounts are related. You've simply made that up. It's a collective habit on the internet to concoct sinister fantasies and then attack other users based on it. There's basically never evidence for any of this—other users having views you disagree with certainly isn't evidence—which is why the HN guidelines ask people not to do it. If you're worried about abuse, you should be emailing hn@ycombinator.com instead so we can look into it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#216

Post by effie »

slightwinder wrote: post #206
twobitshifter wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China did allow this virus to escape, and covered it up shouldn’t they be held liable for trillions in economic damage, as well as compensation for victims around the world?

Why should china be held liable when it was the labs fails? Or even more specific someone in the lab? Would the USA be held liable when some lab fails? Is USA or even the company itself held liable for tech-companies fails on security or protecting privacy? I doubt there is some legal paragraph which would work here, even in International Law.

Evidence points to China government trying to cover up details.

https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coro...

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#217

Post by effie »

twobitshifter wrote: post #180

Does the WHO organization have much credibility left when dealing with China? I remember the embarrassment when a WHO official was asked to talk about about the successful COVID response in Taiwan and he had to awkwardly end the interview. The WHO looked like a puppet of the Chinese government rather than an independent organization. If they can’t talk about Taiwan would they really be expected to uncover anything th…

You are right, they are probably controlled by China. Maybe they still have credibility on things like best practices in dealing with COVID. At least in places where local governments push unscientific overly restrictive policies.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#218

Post by effie »

MilnerRoute wrote: post #97

The WHO team has already reported new information about their recent investigation. I'm always surprised that that's entirely left out of these conversations. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/14/health/WHO-covid-daszak-c... Apparently China's disease-control center had done a great deal of investigating of the Wuhan market, a WHO team member told the New York Times: They'd actually done over 900 swabs in the end, a hu…

Mr. Daszak has obvious conflict of interest (EcoHealth Alliance financed coronaviruses enhancement in past) and has already been recognized in pushing convenient disinformation narratives for him and his work by his scientist peers.

[1] https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/scientists-outraged-pe...

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#219

Post by effie »

randomopining wrote: post #173

It’s obvious the CCP unleashed it either purposely or by accident. You can tell from their behavior. Work back from their behavior to uncover the truth. They’re hiding the origins and have destroyed evidence.

Unfortunately CCP would probably destroy evidence and censor information either way. They are so damn consistent I don't think this behaviour shows what really happened.
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