How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted? • Hacker News Board

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#11

Post by AndrewDucker » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:03 PM UTC

MostExtremeCake wrote: post #5

Here is a pertinent wikipedia article with some links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion It's interesting how this applies to more trivial things, like trying to keep yourself from laughing. Would it be a stretch to say that this supports the idea that we should automate as much of our lives as possible? If I don't have to decide to put a certain amount of my paycheck in savings every time I get it, and it h…

Absolutely. If you want to be good at something, or to do it continually, then make it a habit that requires no thought (or as little as possible).

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#12

Post by Estragon » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:13 PM UTC

One of the things I've learned from meditation is that the "depletion" model of willpower is bogus.

The Happiness Trap is a good model for the development of willpower. http://www.thehappinesstrap.com/

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#13

Post by hugh3 » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 8:30 PM UTC

baq wrote: post #4

blessed potion of willpower

Be careful though. Once I drank a cursed potion of willpower and wound up lying on the couch for an entire weekend.

On second thoughts it was twelve margaritas.

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#14

Post by samtp » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 8:50 PM UTC

dualogy wrote: post #9

kgtm wrote: post #2

TL;DR: Sleep/rest well, exercise, possibly avoid caffeine, try to put yourself in a good mood.

Caffeine: "improves our willpower for some things, such as concentrating on a boring and detailed task, but it has no effect or actually impairs our willpower for other things, such as being polite under trying circumstances." Sounds good enough to me and probably most coders... I can continue to stick to my 5-8-mugs-a-day habit of 13 years then. My willpower hasn't suffered much I think, although it's hard to tell w…

I'm sure your heart will thank you in 15-20 years for your caffeine habit. Its incredible how much energy just some simple daily exercise can give you, allowing you to skip all the caffeine.

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#15

Post by samtp » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 8:53 PM UTC

sayemm wrote: post #7

"A good deal of willfulness must be inborn, because it's common to see families where one sibling has much more of it than another. Circumstances can alter it, but at the high end of the scale, nature seems to be more important than nurture. Bad circumstances can break the spirit of a strong-willed person, but I don't think there's much you can do to make a weak-willed person stronger-willed." - http://www.paulgraham…

I would love to see citations for all of these very general claims about some of the fundamental debates in modern science (such as nature/nurture). Its great to quote pg (especially on this board), but hold off on taking his word as that of a prophet.

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#16

Post by saturdaysaint » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 8:53 PM UTC

Willpower and the problem of the lack thereof are pretty hazily defined here. Poor personal performance is a complicated issue that "Get sleep and exercise" is a poor prescription to. Poor organization, personality conflicts, attitude issues, perfectionism, and poor self image will make even the most well-rested and healthy person underperform at work.

I highly recommend "Procrastination: Why You Do It, What To Do About It" by Jane B. Burka and Lenora M. Yuen and "Getting Things Done" by David Allen for a deeper examination of these issues and some solutions.

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#17

Post by caesarion » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 9:10 PM UTC

saturdaysaint wrote: post #16

Willpower and the problem of the lack thereof are pretty hazily defined here. Poor personal performance is a complicated issue that "Get sleep and exercise" is a poor prescription to. Poor organization, personality conflicts, attitude issues, perfectionism, and poor self image will make even the most well-rested and healthy person underperform at work. I highly recommend "Procrastination: Why You Do It, What To Do Ab…

I agree that there are plenty of possible reasons for poor personal performance, and it would be foolish to assume that more sleep/exercise is a universal solution. But the article never even went there. It's specifically talking about willpower - getting it back or getting more of it. I'd say that the concept of willpower is more of a subcategory to the larger idea you mentioned about underperformance. In that sense, it's about solving a piece of the problem, not the whole thing.

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#18

Post by caesarion » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

Estragon wrote: post #12

One of the things I've learned from meditation is that the "depletion" model of willpower is bogus. The Happiness Trap is a good model for the development of willpower. http://www.thehappinesstrap.com/

What exactly do you mean when you say you've learned "the 'depletion' model of willpower is bogus"?

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#19

Post by 5l » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 10:26 PM UTC

dualogy wrote: post #9

kgtm wrote: post #2

TL;DR: Sleep/rest well, exercise, possibly avoid caffeine, try to put yourself in a good mood.

Caffeine: "improves our willpower for some things, such as concentrating on a boring and detailed task, but it has no effect or actually impairs our willpower for other things, such as being polite under trying circumstances." Sounds good enough to me and probably most coders... I can continue to stick to my 5-8-mugs-a-day habit of 13 years then. My willpower hasn't suffered much I think, although it's hard to tell w…

Ditching caffeine did wonders for me. While I tend to feel a little less "manic" when I'm focused on something, I'm also way more clear headed so I'm certain I'm actually more effective and thus able to reach a much deeper level of concentration.

And don't even get me started on how much better I feel first thing in the morning, or how I can get through a whole week now without headaches, or how my energy levels don't spike and crash like crazy through the day, or how much better my digestive system feels without all that coffee in it... and what all those things do to one's concentration.

It's insidious as well, because you gradually drink more over time; nobody goes from a standing start to 5-8 mugs a day. If they did, they'd feel like hell. So as you seem to acknowledge, after over a decade you're not even making an informed choice any more; there's not been a single moment in all that time that you haven't either been affected by caffeine or it's temporary withdrawal.

Re: How can we get willpower back once it has been depleted?

#20

Post by sayemm » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 10:28 PM UTC

samtp wrote: post #15

sayemm wrote: post #7

"A good deal of willfulness must be inborn, because it's common to see families where one sibling has much more of it than another. Circumstances can alter it, but at the high end of the scale, nature seems to be more important than nurture. Bad circumstances can break the spirit of a strong-willed person, but I don't think there's much you can do to make a weak-willed person stronger-willed." - http://www.paulgraham…

I would love to see citations for all of these very general claims about some of the fundamental debates in modern science (such as nature/nurture). Its great to quote pg (especially on this board), but hold off on taking his word as that of a prophet.

Touche, though I still wouldn't knock pg's insights, even if they're just general inferences. His track record at identifiying winners speaks for itself.