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John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

social.librem.one

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Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#391

Post by Jochim »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #119
beaconstudios wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what did he actually do that you would consider "bad behaviour"? I know he's widely regarded as a blunt/offensive speaker, willing to speak his mind on topics most sensible people just keep quiet on, but has he actually harmed anybody? Committed any crimes? [edit] this is a genuine question. I've seen him write edgy things but am not aware of any harm he's done to others.

“It’s only bad if there’s a law against it.” We used to be able to buy LSD on sugar cubes at record stores, because there was no specific law against it. Most folks just became really annoying for a few hours, but a number ended up in hospitals for the remainder of their lives. There’s a strong argument that all drugs should be legal, as it will allow natural selection to work, but tell that to the families of drug o…

> There’s a strong argument that all drugs should be legal, as it will allow natural selection to work, but tell that to the families of drug overdose victims; many of whom OD on their first go.

I've never seen legalisation argued for from this point of view, usually people in favour of legalisation argue that it allows the government treat addicts in order to reduce the chance of them dying from an overdose and also operate programs to get people clean. Legalisation enables this by redirecting budgets that previously went to enforcement action as well as the taxation that the less harmful options bring in.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#392

Post by ofrzeta »

astorgard wrote: post #219
aboringusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. I take issue with this. I'm not hugely adept at history but from my understanding there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society - this seems to me very American and appears very detached from reality and real world experience. Yes, you are…

> Yes, you are accountable for the communications you make, whether via keybord, orally, or any other way. Just for the purpose of debating let me bring up my (very unpopular) point of view. I have always thought that anyone should be able to say anything and not have legal consequences (ex: go to prison, pay a fine). Notice that this statement covers all scenarios as long as the person involved "only speaks" (or pub…

I think the limits will certainly come down to the consequences the "words" bring with them. Without them the discussion is quite theoretical. You can safely say "everything is allowed" and then defer to another ontological realm where you cleanly separate the actions from the words.

However if someone in reality would start to smear you and especially other people like your wife or daughter with some verbal shit so they would have to suffer from it the limits of freedom of speech would look different.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#393

Post by QuesnayJr »

QuesnayJr wrote: post #18
enriquto wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do we do about this? There's not much we can do about that; the world is a horrible, unfair place. If Socrates was born again, we would kill him again.

Your last sentence perfectly captures something I think all the time, but could never articulate pithily.

I know that you're not "supposed" to comment on voting here, but I feel the need to call out the fundamentally broken culture here around voting. I said something mildly nice about some else's writing, and I've gotten 3 downvotes? Really?

I think the people running the site really needs to consider consequences for excessive downvoting. Having a discussion here is really unpleasant, because of the random drive-by voting. It's easier to have a discussion on Reddit, and Reddit is terrible.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#394

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

iSnow wrote: post #325
mpol wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe other people are divisive and want to destroy or compromise the FSF?

Maybe, but I've yet have anyone describe Stallman as empathetic or integrative. Given the choice between believing multiple persons and orgs have a hidden agenda or believing them, I choose the latter unless I am given good reasons for the first.

He had come up with a set of principles that defined the Free Software, and created a worldwide movement that consists of dosens of thousands of developers,most of the time being vilified and ridiculed and FUDed by some of the biggest corporations on the planet. (And all this time strictly following his own moral code and never trading freedom for convenience)

I'd say he has the very set of traits that allowed him to achieve the impossible and change the world for the better, immensely. But now some random people not known for anything but their activism also want him to be niiiiiiice, or else they'll cancel him. To hell with that!!

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#395

Post by gimboland »

mandmandam wrote: post #301
gimboland wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to live in a world where we can't be forgiven. Forgiveness requires accountability and commitment to change, neither of which have been forthcoming.

Stallman lost his job for years, and apologised - what are you talking about? And this is over - and I can't BELIEVE this still has to be said even here - his words being twisted COMPLETELY out of context. Smh at this community for tolerating comments like yours.

Oh, has he apologised for the years-long pattern of sexual harassment as testified to by multiple women? I must have missed that, sorry.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#396

Post by orasis »

GTP wrote: post #214
orasis wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgiveness technically does NOT require those things. That’s the point. It’s fore-give-ness.

But if you forget for a moment your semantic argument, you find that is actually very hard to forgive somebody that doesn't admit to have done something wrong.

That is the entire point of the Christian practice of forgiveness. It is unconditional.

It is a practice, something you do in spite of it being challenging.

The practice itself is mostly for the forgiver, not the forgiven. Try it and watch your heart soften and open.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#397

Post by incrudible »

user-the-name wrote: post #389
incrudible wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I crack a bad joke due to my social ineptness, you may call that sexual harassment. However, due to my social ineptness, I will simply reject your definition of sexual harassment and insist that I was just making a harmless joke. Perhaps some people with different expressions of that "disability" have the capacity to "learn" that they're "wrong". I don't. To suggest that I should have that capacity because others…

That is not a thing.

It is a thing.

QED

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#398

Post by incrudible »

user-the-name wrote: post #388
incrudible wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a carte blanche, but acting socially inappropriately is a hallmark of Autism-Spectrum disorders. I do believe that does excuse or at least re-frame certain behaviors that might be otherwise construed as "awful" or "abusive". Intent matters.

It really, really does not. I think you should try to first go find out what the behaviours actually are. It's not just having awkward opinions or butting into conversations. Like, https://twitter.com/grok_/status/1375049417926053894

He also ate ”something” from his own foot, in public. I’m not saying his behavior is not highly inappropriate for an adult man. I simply refuse to attribute malice. He probably thought it was hilarious to lick the arm of someone he just met.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#399

Post by david38 »

astorgard wrote: post #219
aboringusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. I take issue with this. I'm not hugely adept at history but from my understanding there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society - this seems to me very American and appears very detached from reality and real world experience. Yes, you are…

> Yes, you are accountable for the communications you make, whether via keybord, orally, or any other way. Just for the purpose of debating let me bring up my (very unpopular) point of view. I have always thought that anyone should be able to say anything and not have legal consequences (ex: go to prison, pay a fine). Notice that this statement covers all scenarios as long as the person involved "only speaks" (or pub…

This is why fiction / fantasy writings of any kind should be allowed.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#400

Post by psychiatrist24 »

bartread wrote: post #382
psychiatrist24 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So maybe the girls are ageist and should be trained out of it, for our modern tolerant society? France has a president with a wife who is 25 years older than him, and that is universally applauded. I can relate to the feeling, but on the other hand, I don't think it is fair to demand unattractive men should remove themselves from the dating pool. Of course society cares more for young women than old men, but nobody w…

> So maybe the girls are ageist and should be trained out of it I'm not convinced that having a preference for romantic partners reasonably close to your own age is ageist any more than my own preference for brunettes over blondes makes me blondist, or my preference for women over men makes me homophobic, or somebody else's preference for same-sex partners makes them heterophobic. We all have preferences. Some of tho…

Again, it is a nice thought, but ultimately I don't think the rule "women should do the first step" is really what society should aim for. I'm not even sure women would want it that way.

Nevertheless, the feelings of men, even unattractive men, should also count. Since you seem to be attractive, I suspect you have zero empathy for the unattractive people out there.

And the same people who want to take down RMS for sexism are the ones who would call you homophobic for not being attracted to men and so on.

Also I don't want to defend RMS behaviour in general. He may be a creep, I don't know. Just the "he hit on a much younger girl" story seems insufficient.

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