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Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

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Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#161

Post by matsemann »

Renaud wrote: post #88
gabythenerd wrote: post #4

I am impressed that numbers are that high, looking from the outside the US doesn't look particularly religious. It might be lower still, I don't think young people answer cellphone surveys all that much.

>looking from the outside the US doesn't look particularly religious. I am genuinely wondering how you can get to this feeling about the US where religion permeates a lot of the social and political spheres. For a Western country, I am actually quite amazed at the prominence of religion in the US, and by religion, I mean Christianity and its various incarnations. Looking at it from the outside it's actually really we…

I think it's because many deem compassion as one of the main religious messages, and that's not something a European would think it's much of in the US (based on media and the right leaning politics).

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#162

Post by jrs235 »

Loughla wrote: post #61
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #46

Having the Church community while growing up was great. But the fact that admission to this community required total philosophical adherence is just bizarre. Frankly, growing up in the church left me with a broken moral code. It was only once I left it in my teens and had to work things out for myself that I feel like I could properly ground myself ethically. Having a moral system imposed on you can do that.

100% that second paragraph. Growing up with morals imposed on my, via the threat of fire and brimstone was weird. I did what I had to do, because I was told to do it or else. Being an adult and doing the right thing, simply because it's the right thing, and developing my own moral and ethical code of conduct has greatly reduced my stress and anxiety.

I hear you. This, reliance on the Old Testament fire and brimstone teaching is a failure of the church. The Law (and the fire and brimstone) is important to show how we (no one) can live up to being prefect and our need for forgiveness and love. We are to do things out of love, not out of fear.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#163

Post by dghf »

Milner08 wrote: post #114
thinkingemote wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Holy Week this week (the week before Easter starts) and every day there is a service in each parish. UK, Roman Catholic churches. You have to book online to reserve a place. A quick look at a few parishes in an area for big and small churches shows that all the services for each day of the week and weekend are booked out in advance. Obviously the numbers able to fit in the churches are capped because of Coronavi…

Roman Catholic... in the UK? That makes up a very small number of churches...

Roman Catholicism is the second largest Christian denomination in the UK (after the Church of England). Something like 7% of the population of England and Wales, 16% of the population of Scotland, and 40% of the population of Northern Ireland are Catholic. Catholicism is the dominant religion in many parts of Northern Ireland, and even in some parts of western Scotland.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#164

Post by jboynyc »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #102

So many of the comments here are affirming what I have long observed: much anti-religious sentiment (“much”, not “all”!) is actually a reaction to fundamentalism, which is the bad theology of scriptural literalism, which brings heresies like hating LGBT, insisting the Bible is also a science textbook, superstitious views of certain Middle Eastern lands, and more. Growing up as a mainline Protestant, I thankfully didn…

Not just other commenters, the (sociological) science backs you up as well: political backlash is a big reason for recent disaffiliation. https://sociologicalscience.com/articles-vol1-24-423/

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#165

Post by WJW »

ISL wrote: post #86
WJW wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports, online forums, student fraternities, social clubs of every variety, etc. There are many ways to get active in society that don't involve beliefs in higher beings.

Those activities don't help much when you encounter the really big challenges in life. Spirituality offers frameworks for dealing with, and often embracing, many of the questions for which there may never be a satisfactory answer. Whether you believe the postulates of a religion or not, there a ton of higher-level lessons to be learned from those who do.

You make it seem like religion is some sort of prerequisite for gaining wisdom, while at best it seems to be orthogonal. For example, reading philosophy from both modern and ancient sources can provide the framework you mention without ever getting all that close to the trappings of traditional religions.

There are tons of higher level lessons to be learned from both religious and non-religious sources.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#166

Post by mantas »

WJW wrote: post #51
liaukovv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you said yourself, people do it to belong to a social circle. What are you replacing this extremely important function with? Vacuum?

Sports, online forums, student fraternities, social clubs of every variety, etc. There are many ways to get active in society that don't involve beliefs in higher beings.

None of these bring the whole (or even the majority of) community together. It's just social bubbles further fragmenting society.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#167

Post by CodeGlitch »

nly wrote: post #35

For comparison, UK church membership is Numbers for those claiming to be of "No religion" range from from 50 to 60% depending on region. 38% don't believe in God or any higher spiritual power. The interesting thing is people will identify as Christian on the census while also not claiming to subscribe to any particular religion in other surveys. 2021 census (just completed this month) results will be interesting http…

Growing up in the 80's (UK) as a Roman Catholic, I remember the services being full on Sunday mornings. Not been since I left home at 18, because frankly I stopped believing in God the same time I stopped believing in Father Christmas (7?). The only reason I went was to make my parents happy.

Now I'm in my 40's I do wonder if the lack of religion in society is leading us to a bad place. We know from numerous studies that 2 parent families (mother and father) give the best outcomes for children (education, jobs, etc). In modern no-religion societies, where is the pull for good old family values? What we are seeing is better rights and fairness for individuals (same-sex marriage, etc) but is that good for society as a whole?

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#168

Post by drewg123 »

currymj wrote: post #81

Fanny Holmes (wife of Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.) once said, when asked why she belonged to the Unitarian Church, "In Boston one has to be something, and Unitarian is the least you can be." Unitarianism by the 20th century didn't have any dogma, even atheists and agnostics could be members, and accepted that all religious traditions had spiritual wisdom to offer. But because it had evolved from Christianity it had ins…

My great Aunt who is 95 belongs to a UU church, and remembers when the Universalists merged with the Unitarians. She says "The Universalist brought too much God stuff into church and wrecked it"

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#169

Post by ykevinator »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #102

So many of the comments here are affirming what I have long observed: much anti-religious sentiment (“much”, not “all”!) is actually a reaction to fundamentalism, which is the bad theology of scriptural literalism, which brings heresies like hating LGBT, insisting the Bible is also a science textbook, superstitious views of certain Middle Eastern lands, and more. Growing up as a mainline Protestant, I thankfully didn…

But god is not real and you speak with some certainty that he is. Clutching on to the premise is so much of the problem with society. Just because you're a nice believer ( not you personally) doesn't mean you're not part of the problem. Belief in the supernatural retards consensus on science based solutions because it presumes that supernatural based solutions are a legitimate alternative.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#170

Post by bko »

eloff wrote: post #150
bko wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an imperfect moral system imposed is better than having no moral system imposed. You have a context for which you can deviate, but if morality is all relative, many will be lost. You need something to ground yourself to. That's where familial culture and religion come in. One isn't necessarily better than another, but its useful to have as a starting point

I completely disagree that religion is the only moral system. If you are not religious you still have a moral system. In the West this had been heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian values, but if you look at countries without that influence you still see a lot of similarities in morals.

I never said its the only one. It's one that has survived over thousands of years. Other places in the East may have their own values imposed outside of the context of religion. But it still exists.

The West for all its flaws based on Judeo-Christian values has its merits. For one, a Japanese person would be more likely to be accepted as an American than an American be accepted as a Japanese.

Religion isn't perfect, but it stood the test of time. It helped guide most of my bloodline to today (apart from a brief detour due to communism). Theoretically you can create a moral system and a way of imposing it outside of religion but I think that's dangerous. How sure are you that your new moral system you just thought of will serve your future generations to be happy and productive members of society? I personally wouldn't gamble my children's fate on it

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