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John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

social.librem.one

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Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#291
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explicitly call out ways to respect and accommodate all pronouns. This footnote describes methods of using pronouns so that they don’t conflict in situations where a pronoun may not be known or understood. The previous item says that gender identity should be respected and so purposely using the wrong pronoun would be in conflict here. Interpreting this footnote that seems to provide more detail on how to work w…

> Interpreting this footnote [...] No, the footnote itself is very clear that it's OK to call a trans man "they" and never "he", if you reject his identity and would prefer to call him "she". We cannot excuse the footnote just because the main text is better. > Especially since it seems to be pro trans and pro inclusivity. Moreover, the context is this document used to reject calling non-binary they people "they". So…

I interpreted that differently as there’s a separate point about respecting people’s gender identity and purposely misusing pronouns would conflict with the guidance.

I read this to mean that there are ways to use they or per your address people when pronouns are uncertain. In that it I don’t know a pronoun then a good way to handle this is to use singular they.

I do this when gender is uncertain, as typical with the Internet and mailing lists and projects and what not.

I did not read this as allowing rude and inappropriate behavior to bypass people’s preferred pronouns.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#292
L. Dachary take on it seems really good to me: https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-w...

Details: https://jorgemorais.gitlab.io/justice-for-rms/ https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/index.html

About the "cancel" approach: https://quillette.com/2021/01/27/beating-back-cancel-culture...

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what did he actually do that you would consider "bad behaviour"? I know he's widely regarded as a blunt/offensive speaker, willing to speak his mind on topics most sensible people just keep quiet on, but has he actually harmed anybody? Committed any crimes? [edit] this is a genuine question. I've seen him write edgy things but am not aware of any harm he's done to others.

“It’s only bad if there’s a law against it.” We used to be able to buy LSD on sugar cubes at record stores, because there was no specific law against it. Most folks just became really annoying for a few hours, but a number ended up in hospitals for the remainder of their lives. There’s a strong argument that all drugs should be legal, as it will allow natural selection to work, but tell that to the families of drug o…

So words "have consequences", and you asscociate Stallman's gaffes with:

- Dangers of LSD.

- Words of actual cult leaders, who are universally charismatic and manipulative. Stallman is the exact opposite and has zero influence outside the free software topic. Stallman is incapable of being manipulative.

- Mass murderers.

- Charismatic DJs in the Rwandan genocide.

I'm speechless that in this supposedly rational forum people employ the same dirty tactics as on Twitter.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It’s only bad if there’s a law against it.” We used to be able to buy LSD on sugar cubes at record stores, because there was no specific law against it. Most folks just became really annoying for a few hours, but a number ended up in hospitals for the remainder of their lives. There’s a strong argument that all drugs should be legal, as it will allow natural selection to work, but tell that to the families of drug o…

So words "have consequences", and you asscociate Stallman's gaffes with: - Dangers of LSD. - Words of actual cult leaders, who are universally charismatic and manipulative. Stallman is the exact opposite and has zero influence outside the free software topic. Stallman is incapable of being manipulative. - Mass murderers. - Charismatic DJs in the Rwandan genocide. I'm speechless that in this supposedly rational forum…

[deleted]

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#295
post #223
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By telling people not to use singular "they", RMS is harming, offending, and driving away nonbinary people Are we really at a point where a pronoun is persecuting people...? This sort of attitude is seriously disrespectful to people who are actually being harmed, offended, and physically chased away from real spaces.

> Are we really at a point where a pronoun is persecuting people Chosing to reject someone's identity is persecuting them, yes. Luckily in England the courts agree and transphobes who refuse to use people's correct pronouns often lose their employment tribunal cases.

“Often” - I’d be curious to see stats. Not that I don’t believe you, I do; I’m just thinking this is such an edge case of an edge case, that the trade-offs involved in accommodating it might not be worth for society at large. After all, the Holy Inquisition made ultracatholics very happy too.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#296
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Wikipedia shows, FSF has/had a lot of power (Wikipedia was originally GFDL licensed)

It still is licensed under the GFDL, I'm not seeing how this is an example of them having power, and this is the GFDL is not the GPL.

Significant portion of the text on Wikipedia is now dual licensed Creative Commons and GFDL (specifically unversioned), something that was made possible by change introduced in later version of GFDL (1.3, afaik) that didn't exist in earlier one.

The licensing move was done in 2009.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is about the freedom to make political opinions while retaining your place in society as a citizen. No, freedom of speech is about not being censored for expressing your opinions. It is not a right to be facilitated in expressing your opinions, or freedom of consequences for your opinions.

Go tell that to all the minorities around the world who have state granted "freedom of speech" but are suppressed/controlled by mobs in other countries. It's counter to freedom of speech and it isn't acceptable.

I'd argue that's more a problem with rule of law than anything freedom of speech related.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#298
post #134
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A talented asshole is a net liability. An untalented, nontoxic person can become a valuable contributor with the right training and mentoring.

Additionally, an asshole can drive away multiple people. Even if an asshole is three times as productive as your typical contributor, they can easily drive away ten people. Not to mention the morality of pedestalling creeps.

Except that these 10 people never materialize if someone who has made 10 "wrong" statements in a decade is canceled.

Which is why cancel tactics are employed only in mature code bases, and the 10 people who do materialize are power hungry bureaucrats who associate themselves with the work of others for financial gain.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did he do in the past 15 years outside of starting petty feuds that nobody cares about (the Linux name debacle) and being a horrible public speaker (there's heaps of stories of him being a dickhead to convention organizers, other convention guests and in general not really keeping any check on what he's even getting hired for)? Like, I recognize that what he did back in the 80s matters, but somewhere around the…

>What did he do in the past 15 years outside of starting petty feuds that nobody cares about (the Linux name debacle) and being a horrible public speaker (there's heaps of stories of him being a dickhead to convention organizers, other convention guests and in general not really keeping any check on what he's even getting hired for)? For one he managed to keep the whole GNU project true to its values by being someone…

Stallman's skill was as a visionary. His role wasn't limited to that unfortunately. Multiple FSF employees say they unionized because of Stallman's management.[1][2] And people have pointed out several examples of him overriding GNU project maintainers.

Stallman said several times adults having sex with children was fine if the children consented.[3][4][5] He changed his mind in 2018 or 2019 apparently.[4][6]

[1] https://twitter.com/paulnivin/status/1374499598853545986

[2] https://twitter.com/NovalisDMT/status/1172573166956437505

[3] https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#28%20June%20...

[4] https://stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20June%20...

[5] https://stallman.org/archives/2013-jan-apr.html#04_January_2...

[6] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#300
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not matter if rms is a nice person or not. He didn't do anything criminal, his only offense is stoically and pedantically expressing his views, unyielding to public pressure. In other words, displaying those very qualities that helped him change software development forever. People should not be destroyed for not being nice enough to certain individuals prone to offenses, and conforming to someone else's view…

> He didn't do anything criminal, Not breaking the law is the bare knuckle minimum standard that we expect. Imagine going to a job interview and when asked about your achievements you say "well, I didn't break any laws".

It's kind of the other way around here.

RMS: "Well I invented the free software movement, did a lot of badass things for open source etc."

Interviewer: "What about personal hobbies?"

RMS: "I write unpopular opinions on my personal blog and express them in ways that annoy people"

Is this enough of a reason to not hire someone?

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