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John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

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Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#271

Post by boomboomsubban »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #200
boomboomsubban wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Thus, the future of the GPL is entirely in the hand of a few people who picked themselves so to say. What does this even mean? As Linux staying on v2 shows, the FSF doesn't have any real control over GPL licenses. And I'm fairly sure the only limitation on modifying the GPL myself is I couldn't use the word "GNU."

The FSF can issue new versions of the GPL, which will automatically apply to software licensed under the GPLv2 or GPLv3 with the "or any later version" clause (which is present in the standard boilerplate). A completely non-representative grep through copyright information indicates that about two-thirds of the GPL-licensed packages on my Debian system have the "or any later version" clause.

>which will automatically apply to software licensed under the GPLv2 or GPLv3 with the "or any later version" clause (which is present in the standard boilerplate).

Unless I'm missing something, the "or any later" clause means that a new GPL would cause further software releases to be dual licensed as GPL v2/3 and 4. The project could choose to go to v4 only, or continue releasing it under both.

I can only imagine that causing problems if they say released a non copyleft v4, and it's hard to see that surviving a legal challenge.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#272

Post by [deleted] »

meribold wrote: post #236
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

The fact that parent created a "risky_opinions" throwaway for sharing their rather moderate take on this controversy should tell all of us that something is going wrong.

[deleted]

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#273

Post by illustriousbear »

clappski wrote: post #16
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. Freedom of speech isn't the freedom to not be publicly judged about what you say.

This is the same idiotic phrase as "Freedom of Speech is not Freedom from Consequences".

You know who else thinks this way? Many repressive countries such as those who control how women / minorities / etc behave in public. It's essentially mob pressure and destroys genuine freedom of speech.

You're basically expressing a threat that will be used against people who openly do not agree with the majority.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#274

Post by YarickR2 »

astorgard wrote: post #219
aboringusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. I take issue with this. I'm not hugely adept at history but from my understanding there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society - this seems to me very American and appears very detached from reality and real world experience. Yes, you are…

> Yes, you are accountable for the communications you make, whether via keybord, orally, or any other way. Just for the purpose of debating let me bring up my (very unpopular) point of view. I have always thought that anyone should be able to say anything and not have legal consequences (ex: go to prison, pay a fine). Notice that this statement covers all scenarios as long as the person involved "only speaks" (or pub…

I agree with you on all points. Freedom of speech is the same as freedom of thought. Actions should be punishable, words shouldn't

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#275

Post by bloodorange »

psychiatrist24 wrote: post #254
bartread wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". In general I agree with you but in this specific instance RMS would have been about 50 years old at the time (please see my other comment in direct response to GP). 50 year old men asking out 19 year old women is very much inappropriate behaviour.

Serious question, why is it inappropriate? It is against the "Bro Code" from "How I met your mother", but other than that? Sure, we are trained to feel uneasy about it, but if you really think about it, why exactly? Because you consider 50 year old men disgusting? Shouldn't you leave that to the women to decide? Many people also feel a bit disgusted about gay sex, yet they are supposed to tolerate and even celebrate…

> But these days, single parenting is the norm rather than the exception.

This is a rather unusual observation I have to say. How did you come to this conclusion, might I ask?

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#276

Post by beaconstudios »

DanBC wrote: post #234
beaconstudios wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what did he actually do that you would consider "bad behaviour"? I know he's widely regarded as a blunt/offensive speaker, willing to speak his mind on topics most sensible people just keep quiet on, but has he actually harmed anybody? Committed any crimes? [edit] this is a genuine question. I've seen him write edgy things but am not aware of any harm he's done to others.

> I know he's widely regarded as a blunt/offensive speaker, I find it genuinely odd that people can say this, and recognise that he's in a position that requires skill in communication, and not feel that there's a mismatch between the man and the job. He has, for years, been poor at one of the core requirements of the position. And then people say "but people make mistakes, he should be allowed to learn and grow" and…

Sure, he's probably not the best person to be in a political position, but that's totally separate from the outrage he appears to be generating from the outrage crowd.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#277

Post by illustriousbear »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #180
toomim wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech is about the freedom to make political opinions while retaining your place in society as a citizen. None of the public judgements about RMS are about anything technical, anything about free software, or anything that touch on him running the FSF. He voiced an unfashionable opinion on sex and the laws about sex. This is a political act to blacklist a man for his political opinions from work in a prof…

> Freedom of speech is about the freedom to make political opinions while retaining your place in society as a citizen. No, freedom of speech is about not being censored for expressing your opinions. It is not a right to be facilitated in expressing your opinions, or freedom of consequences for your opinions.

Go tell that to all the minorities around the world who have state granted "freedom of speech" but are suppressed/controlled by mobs in other countries.

It's counter to freedom of speech and it isn't acceptable.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#278

Post by Daho0n »

arpinum wrote: post #20
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

RMS does not have the skillset needed for a leadership position today. If you care about the movement, it needs a leader people want to follow. Just because RMS is not at the top doesn't mean he is being denied chances and isn't forgiven. I'm sure he can continue writing code. He just isn't good enough as a leader of a broad movement. That isn't a slight, most of us couldn't do it.

I couldn't disagree more. To replace RMS is one thing but to replace him because of woke cancel culture is another. I'd vote for knowledge and skills, not speaking skills and a history of never having said something the woke crowed gets pissy over.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#279

Post by illustriousbear »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #47
clappski wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. Freedom of speech isn't the freedom to not be publicly judged about what you say.

>>> Freedom of speech isn't the freedom to not be publicly judged about what you say. Thank you for putting it so clearly.

It's really not a cool way to think about this.

People all around the world have state sanctioned freedom of speech but are oppressed by the majority in their country.

This infantile view of freedom of speech is simply a way to pretend you care about freedom of speech while sanctioning other ways to silence/punish people. Even when that punishment is completely disproportionate too.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#280

Post by rich_sasha »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #40
rich_sasha wrote: post #8

A whole different angle, I wonder how well the FSF folk get on with RMS. For all the defenses people mount of him, no one says he's a nice guy to be around. I'm still against the Twitter mob etc., I do wonder though if RMS nuked his own organisation by joining the helm again. Life's unfair.

It does not matter if rms is a nice person or not. He didn't do anything criminal, his only offense is stoically and pedantically expressing his views, unyielding to public pressure. In other words, displaying those very qualities that helped him change software development forever. People should not be destroyed for not being nice enough to certain individuals prone to offenses, and conforming to someone else's view…

FWIW this is broadly my own opinion too. I’m trying to go beyond this debate, it’s all been said by now.

Sometimes we don’t have pretty choices, and doing something we are fully entitled to do has adverse consequences regardless. I’m wondering if RMS, while being in his right, ended up avoidably sabotaging his own cause.

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