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John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

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Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#161

Post by orra »

bitwize wrote: post #120
2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment on most of the accusations, I have never met rms in person. But what really shocked me was that the authors of the anti rms letter label him as "transphobe", as a source for that claim they link to his GNU Kind Communications Guidelines [1], which to me spell the exact opposite. Why put such a claim in there? I find it really disturbing that so many people willingly accept that it's ok to mix legitima…

It's the bit about singular "they". RMS for some reason doesn't like singular "they", despite the fact that it predates singular "you" in common English usage. Singular "they" also happens to be, by far, the preferred pronoun of nonbinary people. By telling people not to use singular "they", RMS is harming, offending, and driving away nonbinary people from participation in GNU projects.

That policy has since been updated to allow singular they, despite Stallman's objection to singular they.

But now the footnote of the policy would allow you to call a trans woman "they" and never "her". That's not something transphobes (or anybody else) would ever do to a cis woman.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#162

Post by toyg »

bitwize wrote: post #120
2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment on most of the accusations, I have never met rms in person. But what really shocked me was that the authors of the anti rms letter label him as "transphobe", as a source for that claim they link to his GNU Kind Communications Guidelines [1], which to me spell the exact opposite. Why put such a claim in there? I find it really disturbing that so many people willingly accept that it's ok to mix legitima…

It's the bit about singular "they". RMS for some reason doesn't like singular "they", despite the fact that it predates singular "you" in common English usage. Singular "they" also happens to be, by far, the preferred pronoun of nonbinary people. By telling people not to use singular "they", RMS is harming, offending, and driving away nonbinary people from participation in GNU projects.

> By telling people not to use singular "they", RMS is harming, offending, and driving away nonbinary people

Are we really at a point where a pronoun is persecuting people...?

This sort of attitude is seriously disrespectful to people who are actually being harmed, offended, and physically chased away from real spaces.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#163

Post by iSnow »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #40
rich_sasha wrote: post #8

A whole different angle, I wonder how well the FSF folk get on with RMS. For all the defenses people mount of him, no one says he's a nice guy to be around. I'm still against the Twitter mob etc., I do wonder though if RMS nuked his own organisation by joining the helm again. Life's unfair.

It does not matter if rms is a nice person or not. He didn't do anything criminal, his only offense is stoically and pedantically expressing his views, unyielding to public pressure. In other words, displaying those very qualities that helped him change software development forever. People should not be destroyed for not being nice enough to certain individuals prone to offenses, and conforming to someone else's view…

Then again, if you are of a divisive personality type, you maybe should not lead an organization as others might not want to work with you, companies might want to withdraw funding because they don't like to be associated with the controversy around you. And lastly, you might reduce the reach of your own ideas.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#164

Post by [deleted] »

bitwize wrote: post #120
2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment on most of the accusations, I have never met rms in person. But what really shocked me was that the authors of the anti rms letter label him as "transphobe", as a source for that claim they link to his GNU Kind Communications Guidelines [1], which to me spell the exact opposite. Why put such a claim in there? I find it really disturbing that so many people willingly accept that it's ok to mix legitima…

It's the bit about singular "they". RMS for some reason doesn't like singular "they", despite the fact that it predates singular "you" in common English usage. Singular "they" also happens to be, by far, the preferred pronoun of nonbinary people. By telling people not to use singular "they", RMS is harming, offending, and driving away nonbinary people from participation in GNU projects.

[deleted]

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#165

Post by arpinum »

tjpnz wrote: post #84
arpinum wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RMS does not have the skillset needed for a leadership position today. If you care about the movement, it needs a leader people want to follow. Just because RMS is not at the top doesn't mean he is being denied chances and isn't forgiven. I'm sure he can continue writing code. He just isn't good enough as a leader of a broad movement. That isn't a slight, most of us couldn't do it.

>RMS does not have the skillset needed for a leadership position today. Care to define what that skillset is? Leadership requires all sorts of skills and some of the most effective leaders I've seen share very little in common.

#1 - People want to follow you.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#166

Post by detaro »

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

Stallman is not the pillar things are build on. Yes, he's had a monumental impact on the software world, but it's a mistake to bind the concept of Free Software to him and pretend it needs him personally to be involved. It doesn't, and hasn't for a long time. Today, it's likely better off without him involved at high level, if the past decade of the FSF is anything to go by.

And it's not that we "live in a world where we can't be forgiven", but there is little to suggest that there is any meaningful commitment to change, instead RMS is just back somehow for some reason, without warning (i.e. nobody at LibrePlanet apparently knew that was coming, including the organizers and participants that had explicitly requested to not be involved with him). Not surprising that doesn't satisfy people.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#167

Post by oytis »

quonn wrote: post #151
oytis wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still freedom of speech is understood much more literally and with fewer exceptions in U.S. than elsewhere. In Germany for one, there is no such thing as freedom of speech, but rather "freedom of opinion". Practically that means that if you want to say something that someone else is not going to like, you have to a) take care not to bring up any facts (e.g. say that someone touched you inappropriately), because as so…

> a) take care not to bring up any facts (e.g. say that someone touched you inappropriately), because as soon as you do that you have to either provide a proof or face slander suit Surely you would face slander suits in the US as well if you lie about being touched?

There is a huge difference in who takes the burden of proof. In the U.S. if you accuse someone of slander, you have to prove that what they say is false and malicious. In Germany it's the other way round: the one who is accused is also the one who should prove that what they say is true.

Which leaves e.g. little space for #metoo in Germany - either you have proofs and then you go to police/court - or you don't, and then you have to stay silent.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#168

Post by orra »

user-the-name wrote: post #27
Jonnax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman has stated that he does not have Aspergers or Autism. But for some reason people online can't stop themselves from diagnosing him with it.

Also, even if he did, implying that it is ok to be abusive or a sexual harasser because of it is not just absolutely wrong, but a massive, massive insult to all people with autism.

This is spot on, even though predictably and depressingly you've been downvoted to hell.

Autism does not excuse sexual harassment. Pretending it does is a complete ableist trope. As you say, it's a disservice to everybody with disabilities who have learnt, as necessary, to not sexually harass others.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#170

Post by quonn »

user-the-name wrote: post #27
Jonnax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman has stated that he does not have Aspergers or Autism. But for some reason people online can't stop themselves from diagnosing him with it.

Also, even if he did, implying that it is ok to be abusive or a sexual harasser because of it is not just absolutely wrong, but a massive, massive insult to all people with autism.

It‘s not okay to say they are abusive. You wouldn‘t call a child abusive if it shouts out some words that it doesn‘t understand.
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