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John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

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Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#51

Post by aboringusername »

risky_opinions wrote: post #36
aboringusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. I take issue with this. I'm not hugely adept at history but from my understanding there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society - this seems to me very American and appears very detached from reality and real world experience. Yes, you are…

> perhaps it's best to step away and not click "reply" afterall. This is censorship. It's why I'm posting anonymously for the first time in a long time. > there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society We're in a new era where algorithms amplify rage and "mobs" are a composite of real people, anonymous users, and bots. You can't fight against it, and ther…

If you think there's been a period of history where you can say what you want, when you want, how you want and not end up dead in a ditch then I'd kindly ask you to reconsider that belief. There are many examples of people who have said things only to end up in a bad way as a result.

People have always been targeted for their words, or their beliefs, and sure, we have new ways of amplifying the narrative these days via social media and algorithms/AI, but I wanted to stress this is not new to humanity.

All it takes is one motivated human and they can wreck havoc on your life - it may be because you said something they took offense to or simply because they decided they no longer like you.

There's a lesson in all of this, think before you speak, and before you tweet. As many examples have taught us it will come back to haunt you.

If you want to be a public figure that comes with the job I'm afraid.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#52

Post by liaukovv »

arpinum wrote: post #20
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

RMS does not have the skillset needed for a leadership position today. If you care about the movement, it needs a leader people want to follow. Just because RMS is not at the top doesn't mean he is being denied chances and isn't forgiven. I'm sure he can continue writing code. He just isn't good enough as a leader of a broad movement. That isn't a slight, most of us couldn't do it.

Being a pleasant inoffensive(to corporate sponsors) mommy is just one of many possible ways to lead people.

Another way is to lead by example with unrelenting commitment and drive.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#53

Post by kitsune_ »

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

I think that we do not know whether he is on the autism spectrum. There are articles where RMS states a suspicion but he never underwent an evaluation afaik.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#54

Post by incrudible »

Scuds wrote: post #21
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

So what? Though he's an philosophical founder, the FSF has stagnated under his leadership over the decades. It's like you're more in love with the Idea of the FSF than the FSF as it stands today, reflexively self-protecting its old guard and completely inhibited by the my-way-or-the-high-way attitude of RMS.

That's a fair point, but a smear campaign is not the right tool to achieve change to that end.

If we accept this process as valid just because we agree with the outcome, it is going to blow up right in our face.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#55

Post by simion314 »

We almost Linus Torwalds because of the cancel culture, would be a big loss to lose RMS because he is no longer good PR to have him, bonus points if some big business like Google or Red Hat could grab the leadership of FSF and GNU.

There was a few days back a post for people to support RMS and I admit I did not put my name on the list because i am afraid this could affect my future, cancel culture could get worse and my actions could be misinterpreted as the worse things possible(like I must support pedos if I support RMS).

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#56

Post by lifthrasiir »

arpinum wrote: post #20
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

RMS does not have the skillset needed for a leadership position today. If you care about the movement, it needs a leader people want to follow. Just because RMS is not at the top doesn't mean he is being denied chances and isn't forgiven. I'm sure he can continue writing code. He just isn't good enough as a leader of a broad movement. That isn't a slight, most of us couldn't do it.

I think many people, especially those in this and related threads, don't really understand a difference between a visionary and a decision maker. RMS is indeed a great visionary: his vision of software freedom was basically correct and even more so today. That doesn't automatically make him a great decision maker. There might even possibly be a weak negative correlation.

By all accounts, especially for recent decades, RMS had been a not-so-much-great decision maker and his resignation from FSF should have marked the end of the era no matter how you feel about that. Instead FSF chose to bring him back. Seriously, if out of the free software movement there were no decision maker better than RMS, then it is basically doomed by now. I don't feel so.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#57

Post by bitwize »

Number157 wrote: post #37
bitwize wrote: post #17

I've given a lot of thought to this issue and though I've wanted to give Richard Stallman the benefit of the doubt, I've come to an inescapable conclusion: The FSF board of directors really stepped in it bringing Stallman back, especially in the clandestine manner that they did. They have squandered the goodwill of the community by promoting a controversial figure known for his toxic opinions and decades of bad behav…

This community is toxic and drives good but flawed people away.

A talented asshole is a net liability. An untalented, nontoxic person can become a valuable contributor with the right training and mentoring.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#58

Post by ionwake »

bitwize wrote: post #17

I've given a lot of thought to this issue and though I've wanted to give Richard Stallman the benefit of the doubt, I've come to an inescapable conclusion: The FSF board of directors really stepped in it bringing Stallman back, especially in the clandestine manner that they did. They have squandered the goodwill of the community by promoting a controversial figure known for his toxic opinions and decades of bad behav…

Hi bitwize, if one wanted to see a damning piece of evidence of these accusations, can you link to a page discussing said evidence? Or is this an opinion expressed by you knowing him personally?

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#59

Post by Taniwha »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #31
user-the-name wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has not just "said some sexist and edgy thing". He is abusive against everyone around him. He has sexually harassed numerous women near him, to the point that people lock themselves in their offices when he visits. He is incredibly, incredibly toxic. He has had a huge crowd of people trying, again and again, to tell him to stop acting like this, and to be a decent human being. He refuses. He is a massive burden on…

> He is abusive against everyone around him. He has sexually harassed numerous women near him, to the point that people lock themselves in their offices when he visits. Then why didn't these women report him to the whoever competent authorities at MIT? Or to the police if the crime is serious enough? Why are they signing an open letter on the internet instead? Please don't parrot unfounded heresy.

heresy?

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#60

Post by tspiteri »

kosinus wrote: post #19
risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> American freedom of speech This specifically is such a weird expression. Other than that, just because Stallman did a good thing once, doesn’t excuse him from other mistakes. And making mistakes is not itself a problem, you can always own up to them and learn. But what I gather from the discussion is that there is a _pattern_ of bad behaviour.

> did a good thing once

Discounting something as "a good thing once" sounds weird to me: many things require a huge amount of work to carry off, so "once" here can encompass dedicating someone's life work for decades, just for that one thing. (Sorry for going off topic, as I'm not commenting either way on your point, just on this phrase.)

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