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The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

technologyreview.com

191–200 of 227 posts

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#191

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfiel... CBS News, yesterday: Kristian G. Andersen, director of the infectious disease genomics, translational research institute at Scripps Research, noted that "We know that the first epidemiologically linked cluster of cases came from the Hunan market and we know the virus was found in environmental samples — including animal cages — at the market," he said. "…

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=229...

You and yorwba have been at it for a while now https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba

Very interesting to see the rest of the network. What gave it away is that you are too intelligent to believe the narrative you are pushing.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#192

So, to summarize-the-summary: there are four possible theories: 1. Direct-jump from bat population 2. Started in bats, came to humans through intermediate animal 3. Came from frozen food outside of China 4. Lab accident. I used to think the lab accident theory was crazy, because it sounds like a science fiction movie. Not an impossible theory, just a crazy one. But according to this article, despite a year of investi…

> I used to think the lab accident theory was crazy Accidents happen. Even if it was a lab accident, it's not a reason to be outraged with the Chinese government. I think in parallel to searching for the origin, they should also look into the reports that Chinese government tried to hid it under the carpet and only admitting that it couldn't control it after it was already spread all over the world. That's the real c…

"Even if it was a lab accident, it's not a reason to be outraged with the Chinese government."

Oh, yes it is.

It would be 'manslaughter' on a mass scale.

The largest ever seen.

If this were due to their negligence, then millions of dead, 10's of millions out of work, Trillions in lost productivity is unavoidably consequential.

It would be the worst 'accident' in human history and the responsibility would be squarely on their shoulders.

If you're experimenting with bombs and you blow up all your neighbours homes by accident - that's manslaughter, a very serious crime.

The geopolitical fallout would be unimaginable.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#193
The geopolitical consequences of a 'lab accident' are so severe and existential that I'm doubtful that any evidence will come to light as China will do absolutely everything in it's power to suppress this information.

"Beijing’s joint research with the WHO “is completely insufficient as far as a credible investigation.”

"Instead, Beijing and the WHO agreed last summer to a series of scientific studies that were carried out in China. When the foreign members visited Wuhan in January, it was to help in a joint assessment of the evidence China had found, not to scour the city for new facts. “There was no freedom at all to wander around,” Watson has said."

This outcome would literally shape world history - it would change trade alliances, security posture, it might get them punted from the UN security council, it would severely tarnish China's ambitions for decades and the event would ring through history like 9/11 x 1000. It could very well start a war.

Can you imagine how the plebes around the world will react when they find out masses of their peers have died due to 'China'? That they've lost their livelihoods? There would be mass riots around the world, blood on the streets in a few places at least.

There's way too much at stake, I'm wary if we will ever find the truth.

If we do ultimately find out - the means by which is going to be conveyed will be a master class in Public Relations. How do you let a such a shocking bit of information out? I think it might be best to let rumours swirl first, then indicate 'maybe there is evidence' and only allow the final, official, judicial truth to come out once the plausibility has already been widely accepted.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#194

Note that SARS-CoV-2 contains a unique furin cleavage site, unseen in other coronaviruses. The first to point this out, in February 2020, was the Wuhan Institute of Virology: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12250-020-002... This strange furin cleave site allows the virus to bind to human ACE2 receptors. An interesting scientific reading on this, which does not rule out genetic manipulation in a lab: ht…

"Furin cleavage sites naturally occur in coronaviruses" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612... HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-UK1 both have them and they've likely evolved several times over in parallel evolution (or as the result of multiple infection and recombination maybe?)

[deleted]

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#195

Note that SARS-CoV-2 contains a unique furin cleavage site, unseen in other coronaviruses. The first to point this out, in February 2020, was the Wuhan Institute of Virology: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12250-020-002... This strange furin cleave site allows the virus to bind to human ACE2 receptors. An interesting scientific reading on this, which does not rule out genetic manipulation in a lab: ht…

"Furin cleavage sites naturally occur in coronaviruses" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612... HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-UK1 both have them and they've likely evolved several times over in parallel evolution (or as the result of multiple infection and recombination maybe?)

Your article specifically states "not one acquired recently via recombination" unless it was an ancient strain.

It is almost as if Sarbecovirus acquired portions of the Hipposideros genome. You'll note your article also says this did not come from pangolins or its closest bat relatives, which shoots down another media narrative.

> Strains of SARS-CoV-2 (we also added sequences from the GISAID database) have furin cleavage sites at spike S1/S2. Moreover, SARS-CoV-2 is the only virus in subgenus Sarbecovirus having this feature, while even its closest relatives, bat coronavirus RaTG13 (sequence identity 97.7%) and pangolin coronaviruses (92.9%–90.7%), do not have furin site.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#196
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to think the lab accident theory was crazy Accidents happen. Even if it was a lab accident, it's not a reason to be outraged with the Chinese government. I think in parallel to searching for the origin, they should also look into the reports that Chinese government tried to hid it under the carpet and only admitting that it couldn't control it after it was already spread all over the world. That's the real c…

"Even if it was a lab accident, it's not a reason to be outraged with the Chinese government." Oh, yes it is. It would be 'manslaughter' on a mass scale. The largest ever seen. If this were due to their negligence, then millions of dead, 10's of millions out of work, Trillions in lost productivity is unavoidably consequential. It would be the worst 'accident' in human history and the responsibility would be squarely…

Unbelievable that you are being down-voted.

Almost all pandemics started in China in the history, apperantly habitat is suitable for that. You knew that but still play with deadly viruses there, then accidently it spreads and you try to cover up and make it worse and cause millions of deaths. Fair mistake, it is an accident!

If it is originated from a lab, I think people should not find out this. I’m not sure. It will trigger some feelings against China, hopefully it won’t turn into something racist.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the OP's case it was done for deflection of blame rather than trying to track where the mutations are first noted. You might have noticed there's some stuff in the news about hate crimes against asians -- there's a direct correlation there.

You may have also noticed that one of the most active stories on HN right now is 'How U.S. media lost the trust of the public'.

You do realize the rise in attacks on Asian Americans are not simply anecdotes from the media but shows up in the statistics and police reports?

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#198
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not doing anything to counteract China's self-interest influence over the whole organization. China turned them in a personal PR agency that went as far as having WHO's head renaming the virus to something that doesn't mention its origins and everyone happily ate it without question. It's infuriating. The only entity of significant influence that offered some resistance was Trump, but his leadership was compromise…

This is about the name, I see.

One example of it. Others were mentioned also. Get rid of your bias.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#199
post #66

Yeah, sure go look for it more than a year later. That's how it works best. China and WHO spit in the face of the world. And world smiled back and greeted them.

Please don't post nationalistic flamewar comments to HN. Comments like this are destructive of the forum, regardless of your views on the underlying issues. Protecting the commons from disintegrating and destroying itself is the higher priority here, for what should be obvious reasons. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Your interpretation doesn't change the facts around it. WHO lost significant portion of its funding for a while because exactly of China's self-interest influence. But because others, like you, see that as "nationalistic" and "destructive", that effort was in vain and to this day the status quo remains the same and the end result is at hand - "nobody can find out what triggered the pandemic."

My comment didn't disintegrate and destroyed more commons than said status quo. Inaction and censorship did.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, although we are a bit better here in west, we are still far from perfect. Letting the POTUS call it China virus, is despicable.

Strange word to describe that, seems rather fair actually. Do you think UK, south African, brazilian variant are 'despicable' ?

I think it's substantially different.

Initial outbreaks of viruses occur geographically at random (with China having a >1/6 chance); the fact that there are significant UK, South African, and Brazilian variants has a much lower random component and a much higher deterministic component. It also illustrates where those variants are still primarily spreading.

If one of those variants become globally dominant, I doubt we will continue to name them after the location.

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