331–340 of 363 posts
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Two ways to lie, say something false or only give 1/2 of the story.
A third is to come out with a lot of nonsense all the time so people don't really differentiate the important lies. I've noticed that technique in certain well known politicians.
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Also self deception helps.
I often think about that. If I can thoroughly convince myself to believe a factual lie, would classic lie detector devices still work on me?
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> Say, someone says they're busy/absent/whatever at X time, but then you spot them at that time, very clearly to the contrary. Did they lie to you? Sure looks that way. But it could also be that their schedule just changed. Maybe they were just busy with the thing you spotted them doing? I’ve been “caught” a zillion times doing a thing by myself because I was booked on my own calendar and didn’t have time for anyone…
That's also possible. I said "very clearly to the contrary" precisely because I was not talking about that scenario.
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Not saying it's easy, especially for a kid, but if you go in front of a panel like that, if you can demonstrate remorse and desire to change, it goes a long way. This only furthers the advantage of those most willing and able to lie. Especially so when the system and punishment is arbitrary and capricious rather than rooted in first principles. We should focus on outcomes and shared goals, not easily faked attitudes.
Why do you assume it's a lie? I'd say it's at worst uncorrelated to the truth. And, apart from whether you mean it or not, I believe there's value in learning how to tell people that you do. It's up to you then to decide whether you want to use that power to lie.
>> Psychologists have long known how hard it is to spot a liar. Absolutely this. Lying is a loose concept. Is it lying if I believe it is true? Is it lying if it's just an omission of truth? You can spot nervousness, you can spot defiance. I work in a field where people deceive almost 80% of the time, and less than 1 in 10 where caught. The way we approach this is by flanking. Using falsifiable questions the subject…
> Lying is a loose concept. Is it lying if I believe it is true? Is it lying if it's just an omission of truth? I think what underlies this discussion are assumptions that lying is, by default, unethical and that we can trust truth-telling to be beneficial. I have found that neither of these things are factual. Truths can be devastatingly harmful with no discernible benefit. I have found this outcome more likely when…
>> Psychologists have long known how hard it is to spot a liar. Absolutely this. Lying is a loose concept. Is it lying if I believe it is true? Is it lying if it's just an omission of truth? You can spot nervousness, you can spot defiance. I work in a field where people deceive almost 80% of the time, and less than 1 in 10 where caught. The way we approach this is by flanking. Using falsifiable questions the subject…
> Is it lying if it's just an omission of truth? Yes. It's literally called "lying by omission". > Is it lying if I believe it is true? Yes. I'm struggling to keep from bursting out laughing because the answer to both these questions are so plainly obvious that even young children know them, even if they're unable to articulate to you why its lying. A lie is a lie is a lie.
>> Psychologists have long known how hard it is to spot a liar. Absolutely this. Lying is a loose concept. Is it lying if I believe it is true? Is it lying if it's just an omission of truth? You can spot nervousness, you can spot defiance. I work in a field where people deceive almost 80% of the time, and less than 1 in 10 where caught. The way we approach this is by flanking. Using falsifiable questions the subject…
Out of curiosity, what field is that?
>> Psychologists have long known how hard it is to spot a liar. Absolutely this. Lying is a loose concept. Is it lying if I believe it is true? Is it lying if it's just an omission of truth? You can spot nervousness, you can spot defiance. I work in a field where people deceive almost 80% of the time, and less than 1 in 10 where caught. The way we approach this is by flanking. Using falsifiable questions the subject…
Is the field law?
A lie-detector that works is a trillion-dollar business. A great sci-fi novel that explores the implications of an accurate lie-detector is "The Truth Machine". I've given a lot of thought to this topic over the years, and have concluded that the way to tackle this problem is indirectly. The problem with "truth" is that it is subjective. There is a better metric to judge: "false-confidence". There is a subtle but dis…
A lie is a mismatch between what I believe and what I say. It has nothing to do with objective truth. We sometimes talk about lying versus telling the truth, but this is a shorthand. What we mean by telling the truth is saying what we believe to be true. No reasonable person would say that someone is lying if they say what they believe to be true, but it turns out they are mistaken.
Was he lying? Did it matter whether he believed it at the time or not? Or maybe lying or not lying is the wrong lens to view that through, it seems to me to be more like a broken promise, since the person stating that had a high degree of control over the outcome.
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Why do you assume it's a lie? I'd say it's at worst uncorrelated to the truth. And, apart from whether you mean it or not, I believe there's value in learning how to tell people that you do. It's up to you then to decide whether you want to use that power to lie.
GP isn't saying it's a lie, they are saying it rewards liars. That's an important distinction.
The presence of the word "only" clearly makes an assumption that it is a lie.