Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Downvoting

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 57 posts

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#31

Post by ColinWright »

jinushaun wrote: post #28
ColinWright wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was once the case, but I think it's no longer true. Of late I've seen relevant and constructive comments down-voted, and I've been able to discern no reason other than the view expressed was an unpopular one. If there's a mechanism to indicate a comment is inappropriate, people will use it to indicate disapproval. If there's no mechanism to indicate a comment is inappropriate, inappropriate and off-topic will ab…

Time and time again, Slashdot's voting system shows that it's superior to these simple up/down voting systems. Not all up votes are equal, nor are all down votes simply because you disagree with the content.

I, and I'm sure many others here also, am unfamiliar with SlashDot's system. Could you point to a summary? Perhaps simply edit your comment to include one.

Thanks.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#32

Post by AndrewDucker »

steventruong wrote: post #24
ColinWright wrote: post #3

I would be interested in knowing how much of your description is deduction on your part, and how much is received fact from definitive sources. I would be interested in knowing how and why your comment was deemed "bad." I don't know of any definitive cases where someone made a comment that was appropriate, got vast numbers of down-votes, and then got banned because of it. I know of many people who have complained abo…

I'll give you one example. Recently, someone posted a link to the new update for Python 2.7.2. At the time, on the python website itself, it stated that this was not a production release and specifically said something along the lines of upgrade at your own risk (I quoted it word for word from the site). I then made a personal statement saying "I guess I won't be upgrading". I felt that it may help those who didn't s…

Your comment doesn't add anything to the conversation, you don't supply information on why you wouldn't be upgrading, or what the advantages/disadvantages are to you (or anyone else). You just added meaningless noise to the thread. I'd have downvoted it myself.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#33

Post by codabrink »

People on HN are way too keen to downvoting. Down votes should be used to filter out bad/thoughtless comments, not viewpoints that don't necessarily agree with yours. I've seen a lot of valuable input grayed out on this site.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#34

Post by steventruong »

ColinWright wrote: post #26
steventruong wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you one example. Recently, someone posted a link to the new update for Python 2.7.2. At the time, on the python website itself, it stated that this was not a production release and specifically said something along the lines of upgrade at your own risk (I quoted it word for word from the site). I then made a personal statement saying "I guess I won't be upgrading". I felt that it may help those who didn't s…

Here's one way to think about it, based purely on what you've said. I didn't see your comment, so I don't know for sure: Did you say anything unobvious? You quoted from the site that they declared it not to be a production release, and you said "OK - not for me." (I paraphrase) We can easily deduce that, as it's not a production release, then not everyone will want it. Fine. What did your comment really add? It was a…

I can see what you mean and I do understand that vantage point of view. However, I think downvoting something just because it doesn't necessarily add obvious value (which is relative) to the conversation is a mistake. Maybe it's just me but I would think it would make people more hesitant to speak freely just because others may perceive no value from it and getting downvoted as a result. It's very different than downvoting something because it's wrong (like 2+2 is not 5) or because the behavior was unacceptable.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#35

Post by steventruong »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #32
steventruong wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you one example. Recently, someone posted a link to the new update for Python 2.7.2. At the time, on the python website itself, it stated that this was not a production release and specifically said something along the lines of upgrade at your own risk (I quoted it word for word from the site). I then made a personal statement saying "I guess I won't be upgrading". I felt that it may help those who didn't s…

Your comment doesn't add anything to the conversation, you don't supply information on why you wouldn't be upgrading, or what the advantages/disadvantages are to you (or anyone else). You just added meaningless noise to the thread. I'd have downvoted it myself.

It does. As I've said previously, I quoted the line that states its not production release and upgrading is at users own risk. I would think its self explanatory as to why I wouldn't upgrade. As for why it matters... as I've said, some people don't bother to scan the page. They simply click download. It's nice to have a reference pointed out. Maybe it's just me but I don't see it as meaningless as others do. That said, see my other reply above. I think it's bad to discourage people from speaking freely just because its subjectively not adding value to the overall conversation. It's one thing to downvote something that is deserving of a downvote, its another to discourage people from stating their opinions.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#36

Post by steventruong »

codabrink wrote: post #33

People on HN are way too keen to downvoting. Down votes should be used to filter out bad/thoughtless comments, not viewpoints that don't necessarily agree with yours. I've seen a lot of valuable input grayed out on this site.

I agree except bad/thoughtless can be subjective.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#37

Post by jonafato »

peterhi wrote: post #23
ryall wrote: post #11

How about a limited amount of down-votes allocated to each member to dish out? Possibly tiered based on karma level? Perhaps a member that down-votes a comment loses karma if the comment is then up-voted by other members (ie deemed an unfair down-vote by others)?

The only problem here is that you are assuming only one point of view is correct. So if I down vote you because I believe what you are saying is wrong but a lot of supporters of your view up vote then I will be punished for having a discenting (or at least less popular) view. Is this what you had in mind?

Therein lies the the problem though. It seems to be the general consensus that people should down vote only for unhelpful / irrelevant / factually incorrect comments, however voting is used to show agreement / disagreement. Before voting, I usually ask myself why I'm doing this. If it's to promote an opinion, I leave it alone.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#38

Post by fogus »

ColinWright wrote: post #30
fogus wrote: post #29

Am I missing something? Isn't one way to fix downvoting to make them subtractive for both parties?

Then if something is on-topic but content-free, why would I bother to flag it? How do I get rewarded for doing the right thing? Why should I not just leave it to someone else? The idea is to reward correct behavior, whereas your suggestion punishes it.

Yeah, you're probably right. I was hoping for the simple solution, but came up short. I can say that I personally wouldn't mind sacrificing my own karma to downvote someone who really deserves it.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#39

Post by maresca »

Downvoting is used often for dissenting views nowadays. Personally, I don't care that much if my comments are downvoted. This is just another forum on the internet. I'd rather voice my opinion and get downvoted than not voice my opinion at all.

That being said, I'd like to see the downvoting be removed.

Go ahead and downvote my comment.

Re: Ask HN: Downvoting

#40

Post by ColinWright »

maresca wrote: post #39

Downvoting is used often for dissenting views nowadays. Personally, I don't care that much if my comments are downvoted. This is just another forum on the internet. I'd rather voice my opinion and get downvoted than not voice my opinion at all. That being said, I'd like to see the downvoting be removed. Go ahead and downvote my comment.

From http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

    In Comments

    ...

    Please don't bait other users by inviting them
    to downmod you.
Post reply on HN