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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#551

Post by [deleted] »

lukejduncan wrote: post #281
ausbah wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

calling it a free market is laughable naive. the market is lopsided in favor of businesses because many laws at the state and federal are explicitly pro-business and anti-union; see "right to work laws", the 1947 Taft-Harley act, etc. - especially over the past 20 years and saying workers should just go and join a union backed job is even sillier when [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Right to work is pro employee. If unions want membership they shouldn’t be able to coerce it. They should have to earn it and compete for it. If a union can’t survive based on voluntary membership then that tells you something.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#552

Post by CryptoPunk »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #210
weyland108 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ? Seems like I am better of without a union if I am getting more pay?. Also where is the conversation around building a better product to add more value in this union debate?

We are all paid less than in the US, union or not. In the UK, its mostly older industries that are covered by unions these days. I think the google and microsoft staff have been trying to create the first tech oriented one though.

If they do, it's going to drive out tech employers from the UK just as employers in the UK primary and manufacturing sectors were driven out or bankrupted in the 1970s after their work forces unionized.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#553

Post by scrose »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #548
lazyweb wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you're somewhat bitter about this topic. Is that a good way to present your argument though? It seems to me that this kind of sentiment ("I've experienced hardships or know people who did, so why does this group deserve better?") is quite prevalent here in germany as well. I think this is a common trope among richer countries at least, and probably one of the most effective strategies or rhetoric patterns to st…

I don't think you understand my point. Labelling something incorrect is what I l'm suggesting what they are doing. To stay relevant. So members keep paying their member fees. I'm not saying it has any disadvantages to me and that shouldn't matter at all. Eg. Teachers here in middle school are labeled as a physical heavy profession and receive advantages. Explain to me what is exactly physical heavy about teaching. An…

It seems like the issue you’re pointing out relates to how groups get classified in a ‘physical heavy profession’, no? If the requirements are ‘low’ for that, it sounds like the label itself may be inaccurate and causing unnecessary confusion

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#554

Post by tw04 »

smitty1e wrote: post #470
eutropia wrote: post #461

Interesting, in a way: asking to delete the tweet has likely given it far more audience than it originally had. Streisand effect, maybe?

Does the First Amendment amount to a fart in a thunderstorm any longer? If anyone getting paid out of taxpayer funds doesn't grok the Bill of Rights, then their employment is what needs deleting.

I can't tell if you're being intentionally dense. Elon mixing his personal and business facing statements on his personal twitter account were his doing. He can no longer speak as a private citizen about Tesla on his twitter account, period. Anything he tweets is rightfully considered an official statement by a company representative.

By your logic, Elon could tweet Tesla's financial results on twitter during a quiet period before public release "because first amendment". The first amendment doesn't give you carte blanche to break the law without consequence...

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#555

Post by NicoJuicy »

scrose wrote: post #553
NicoJuicy wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand my point. Labelling something incorrect is what I l'm suggesting what they are doing. To stay relevant. So members keep paying their member fees. I'm not saying it has any disadvantages to me and that shouldn't matter at all. Eg. Teachers here in middle school are labeled as a physical heavy profession and receive advantages. Explain to me what is exactly physical heavy about teaching. An…

It seems like the issue you’re pointing out relates to how groups get classified in a ‘physical heavy profession’, no? If the requirements are ‘low’ for that, it sounds like the label itself may be inaccurate and causing unnecessary confusion

It's not a one-time misclassified label, it's a continuous loop of unions trying to get more benefits for their "members" at any means possible.

And the sensitivity of some of them would cause a disgrace for any politician to mention ( eg. because yes, teachers are important)

I wouldn't call it inaccurate, but more like deceit.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#556

Post by missedthecue »

joshuamorton wrote: post #501
missedthecue wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are anti-free market. They are monopoly cartels protected by the federal government. If people who sell peanut butter joined together to sell their products at a higher price, the DOJ would bust them up. If people who sell labor join together to do the same type of rent seeking, congress sets up the NLRB to protect them.

A company is, last I checked, free to reject the union entirely and fire everyone (if they strike). Not to mention your argument should be that cartels should be legal, not that unions should not be.

You may want to check again. A company cannot refuse to bargain with the union, and strikers cannot be fired while on strike.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#557

Post by fastball »

neolog wrote: post #462
fastball wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when someone doesn't join your cause, you are generally going to be weaker. That's kinda how it works. Doesn't make it a tragedy of the commons though.

I think you're missing part of the story.

Which part?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#558

Post by missedthecue »

ResearchCode wrote: post #527
missedthecue wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be zero sum?

Your power in society is zero sum. Giving it all away to an oligarch in exchange for promises of cheap consumer goods is not an credible bargain.

At what level does wealth go from "normal wealth" to "oligarch wealth"? Like, where is that line?

Also, on what planet could Bezos be described as an oligarch? Not this one. Everyone on the left and the right hates him for various reasons. The previous president hated him. This president just told his workers to unionize. Senators are constantly portraying him as Satan incarnate.

He has no political power in Washington. They hate him.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#559

Post by winthrowe »

pmorici wrote: post #534
boublepop wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weather unions would be anti stock option or not is debatable, certainly not a fact, and the tweet is absolutely clear cut a threat that workers would lose them if they unionized independent of what the union would do.

Can you cite any instance where a union representing blue collar workers has negotiated stock options or similar stock based compensation as part of their member's pay package?

Maybe someone else finds something more recent, but it looks like 20 years ago, unions got options at about half the rate of non union (table 1).

https://smlr.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/documents/facul...

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#560

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

pmorici wrote: post #534
boublepop wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weather unions would be anti stock option or not is debatable, certainly not a fact, and the tweet is absolutely clear cut a threat that workers would lose them if they unionized independent of what the union would do.

Can you cite any instance where a union representing blue collar workers has negotiated stock options or similar stock based compensation as part of their member's pay package?

Can you cite any instance where a union representing blue collar workers who already have stock options or similar stock based compensation as part of their member's pay package has lost them in negotiation?
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