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How can you tell if someone is lying?

theatlantic.com

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Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#211

Post by specialist »

tarsinge wrote: post #118
foobiekr wrote: post #65

David Simon's book, Homicide, has an apropos section: """Terry McLarney once mused that the best way to unsettle a suspect would be to post in all three interrogation rooms a written list of those behavior patterns that indicate deception: Uncooperative. Too cooperative. Talks too much. Talks too little. Gets his story perfectly straight. Fucks his story up. Blinks too much, avoids eye contact. Doesn’t blink. Stares.…

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

My bro has a thyroid condition. So he doesn't blink, holds eye contact. We were cold busted so many times as kids. Often with physical evidence. He always got off.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#212

Post by [deleted] »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #205
Veen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article shows neurotypical people should have the same concerns. Interogators who think they know how to spot lying are usually wrong, regardless of whether they are interviewing neurotypical people or people on the spectrum. I'm not on the spectrum, but I was a rebellious kid who didn't like to take shit from teachers. My defiant and sarcastic reactions to accusations were often considered evidence that I'd done…

Well to be fair, even if you weren’t in the wrong at first, a sarcastic response to a teacher does put you in the wrong...

[deleted]

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#213

Post by jacquesm »

Spivak wrote: post #203
jacquesm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are operating on the principle that finding the truth is the purpose of an interrogation. This belief may be false.

It’s not. The purpose of interrogation is for the officer to gather evidence pointing to your guilt which will be presented at trial. The trial is about figuring out the truth.

> The trial is about figuring out the truth.

Even that is an assumption.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#214

Post by quesera »

randycupertino wrote: post #131
doublejay1999 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm pleased to read this. I say that as someone who fell for the schtick, and he made a couple of sales out of me. He tells a decent story, and you feel like you've learn something after reading him. Scratch below the surface, and it turns out you haven't.

Ahh! Thank you for finally articulating what has always bugged me so much about his books. I am reading along thinking, "yeah, yeah, this makes sense" and then realizing later that it actually had no depth.

I like the term "insight porn" to describe that feeling.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#215

Post by meiraleal »

sloshnmosh wrote: post #196

This is just silly pseudoscience, new-age BS if you ask me. The only scientifically proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to examine the shape and bumps of their skull.

> The only scientifically proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to examine the shape and bumps of their skull.

The only proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to get evidence.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#216

Post by specialist »

qPkk4Bi wrote: post #178
Robin_Message wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a book by Malcolm Gladwell, I can't anti-recommend it enough. All of the Malcolm Gladwell books I've read have been tripe. Unless he has radically improved his writing and grasp of nuance in the last decade (and published retractions of his earlier books), his books are dangerous anti-knowledge which will make you feel smarter but actually be dumber. Gladwell takes an obvious, folksy thing, adds a bit of a tw…

I've only read Outliers and David and Goliath, but I really enjoyed them and feel that they provided some tangible benefits in how I think about things. Could you share some of the criticism against him so I could update any incorrect beliefs I may have?

My opinion flipped the other direction. Which totally surprised me.

I used to dismiss Gladwell's "insight porn" (h/t lordnacho). But now I feel like he's a pretty effective advocate, popularizer of views and policies that I agree with. Briefly, he's punching up.

Michael Lewis was the catalyst to reassessing Gladwell. I just frikkin love his Against The Rules podcast series. Briefly, he argues that we do better, both as society and individuals, with referees and coaching.

Then I listened to a handful of Gladwell interviews. A long form chat with Lewis. Book tour stops for Talking with Strangers. I thought: Huh, Gladwell doesn't sound too bad.

So I started listening to other Pushkin Industry podcasts.

I especially love historian Jill Lepore.

So I guess my TLDR is: I reevaluated Gladwell because he's now working with two people I really admire. Virtue by association.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#217

Post by everdrive »

theelous3 wrote: post #191
tarsinge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

I was a fairly disruptive kid in school. It was all boyswillbeboys stuf. Drinking and smoking with friends in abandoned sections of the school. The kind of stuff that seems really serious then, and inconsequential now. I was brought in front of the board for expulsion after a litany of these types of things, and questioned about anything and everything for about two hours. We took the case to the board of education a…

This is an extreme case, but not an unusual one. People draw conclusions about people with very little information. They then carry on to believe that their conclusions have real weight, and are based in fact. It's part of why there were always be socially fluid types and con artists.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#218

Post by Robin_Message »

qPkk4Bi wrote: post #178
Robin_Message wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a book by Malcolm Gladwell, I can't anti-recommend it enough. All of the Malcolm Gladwell books I've read have been tripe. Unless he has radically improved his writing and grasp of nuance in the last decade (and published retractions of his earlier books), his books are dangerous anti-knowledge which will make you feel smarter but actually be dumber. Gladwell takes an obvious, folksy thing, adds a bit of a tw…

I've only read Outliers and David and Goliath, but I really enjoyed them and feel that they provided some tangible benefits in how I think about things. Could you share some of the criticism against him so I could update any incorrect beliefs I may have?

It's years since I read and then binned any of his books, but to give a concrete criticism of Outliers:

Anders Ericsson, who conducted the study upon which "the 10,000-Hour Rule" was based has written that Gladwell had overgeneralized, misinterpreted, and oversimplified his findings. https://web.archive.org/web/20190320062202/https://radicalsc...

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#219

Post by tarruda »

meiraleal wrote: post #215
sloshnmosh wrote: post #196

This is just silly pseudoscience, new-age BS if you ask me. The only scientifically proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to examine the shape and bumps of their skull.

> The only scientifically proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to examine the shape and bumps of their skull. The only proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to get evidence.

> The only scientifically proven way of knowing if someone is a liar is to examine the shape and bumps of their skull.

Sarcasm?

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#220

Post by hutzlibu »

Veen wrote: post #138
tarsinge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

The article shows neurotypical people should have the same concerns. Interogators who think they know how to spot lying are usually wrong, regardless of whether they are interviewing neurotypical people or people on the spectrum. I'm not on the spectrum, but I was a rebellious kid who didn't like to take shit from teachers. My defiant and sarcastic reactions to accusations were often considered evidence that I'd done…

"My defiant and sarcastic reactions to accusations were often considered evidence that I'd done wrong when I was innocent."

You were rebellious. From the point of view of a common teacher, that means you are not innocent. There is actually a old common saying, when some kid got a beaten, but it later turned out to be not guilty of that ... "well, he deserved it anyway" or "well, then the beating was in advance for something he is about to do" "or some other hidden sin", instead of a apology.

Which means self fulfilling prophecy. Punishing someome for something they didn't do - and for sure there will be reasons later on for things they will have done.

There are still way too many teachers and alike, who think a childs free spirit needs to be broken first, before they can learn something useful.

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