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How can you tell if someone is lying?

theatlantic.com

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Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#201

Post by roflc0ptic »

tarsinge wrote: post #118
foobiekr wrote: post #65

David Simon's book, Homicide, has an apropos section: """Terry McLarney once mused that the best way to unsettle a suspect would be to post in all three interrogation rooms a written list of those behavior patterns that indicate deception: Uncooperative. Too cooperative. Talks too much. Talks too little. Gets his story perfectly straight. Fucks his story up. Blinks too much, avoids eye contact. Doesn’t blink. Stares.…

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

I remember being berated for uncontrollably smiling as a fear response. In one sense, it was a good lesson - smiling at people who are angry with you can make them angrier. But it was also a lesson in abject helplessness: interacting with people who have power over you will result in arbitrary, potentially unbounded pain and your best efforts to “play the game” will fail. Internalizing that lesson has done me very little good!

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#202

Post by Razengan »

tarsinge wrote: post #118
foobiekr wrote: post #65

David Simon's book, Homicide, has an apropos section: """Terry McLarney once mused that the best way to unsettle a suspect would be to post in all three interrogation rooms a written list of those behavior patterns that indicate deception: Uncooperative. Too cooperative. Talks too much. Talks too little. Gets his story perfectly straight. Fucks his story up. Blinks too much, avoids eye contact. Doesn’t blink. Stares.…

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

I have the same issue! When anyone asks me about something I haven't done (or should have done and did), I feel like they won't believe me anyway and go into a over-defensive/explanatory mode, basically acting like a culprit.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#203

Post by Spivak »

jacquesm wrote: post #148
zakember wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this would unsettle innocent people as well. Sounds like this would unsettle some non-suspects too

You are operating on the principle that finding the truth is the purpose of an interrogation. This belief may be false.

It’s not. The purpose of interrogation is for the officer to gather evidence pointing to your guilt which will be presented at trial.

The trial is about figuring out the truth.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#204

Post by nonameiguess »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #51
clouddrover wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> current polygraph techniques can allegedly be beaten with training No training is needed because polygraphs don't work. Polygraph testing is about as worthwhile as astrology: https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph https://www.salon.com/2000/03/02/polygraph/ And inadmissible in court in many places: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MurUEJL/2000/6.html > if trained polygraph techs with special equipment T…

I’m not going to vigorously defend polygraphs, but I’ll play Devil’s advocate for a bit. From your the Salon piece you linked to, “In studies, polygraph diagnoses are often wrong, with rates hovering around 80 percent correct” Which to some people sounds terrible. I certainly wouldn’t want to hang a murder conviction on something with a 20 percent error rate. But on the other hand, 80 percent is better than all but o…

The US government still requires polygraphs as a condition of having administrative access to classified systems. They're one data point of many, since you already have a clearance and were thoroughly investigated by other means, but this is an obvious area where it is acceptable to use shitty evidence. The cost of a false negative is extremely high, but the cost of a false positive is close to nothing. Any person who can't pass just has to get a different job.

Courts are the exact opposite situation and I hope the practice of using polygraphs in criminal investigations disappears at some point.

People tend to miss that the error rate in a diagnostic procedure is not enough to evaluate the usefulness of a procedure because you need the relative cost of different types of error as well. It's the same reason FAANGs can get away with shitty interview methods. Cost of false negatives is much higher than cost of false positives.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#205

Post by ImprovedSilence »

Veen wrote: post #138
tarsinge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

The article shows neurotypical people should have the same concerns. Interogators who think they know how to spot lying are usually wrong, regardless of whether they are interviewing neurotypical people or people on the spectrum. I'm not on the spectrum, but I was a rebellious kid who didn't like to take shit from teachers. My defiant and sarcastic reactions to accusations were often considered evidence that I'd done…

Well to be fair, even if you weren’t in the wrong at first, a sarcastic response to a teacher does put you in the wrong...

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#206

Post by rovr138 »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #205
Veen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article shows neurotypical people should have the same concerns. Interogators who think they know how to spot lying are usually wrong, regardless of whether they are interviewing neurotypical people or people on the spectrum. I'm not on the spectrum, but I was a rebellious kid who didn't like to take shit from teachers. My defiant and sarcastic reactions to accusations were often considered evidence that I'd done…

Well to be fair, even if you weren’t in the wrong at first, a sarcastic response to a teacher does put you in the wrong...

For being sarcastic. You shouldn’t be punished for everything at that point.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#207

Post by wl »

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #80
airstrike wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC their 95% failure includes failing to spot explosives and the like in their scanners

I went through a screening with a "robot" - in quotes because it was literally a breadboard with a bunch of wires sticking out of it, a battery and a squarish box. Didn't even have to open the bag to show the agents what it was, went right through the scanner with no comment. And I was nervous as hell cause I was sure I was going to have to explain it, maybe even show that it worked. But nope, not a peep.

I've taken a lot of messy electronic prototypes through security when traveling for work. The TSA has never cared. My camera bag, on the other hand, seems to get some baggage screeners very excited. Something about the glass being opaque to x-rays? But most screeners don't care.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#209

Post by lazyweb »

tim333 wrote: post #157
hntrader wrote: post #94

We evolved to be effective deceivers, so if there was a systemic and obvious physical tell (looking left = liar) then evolution would try to eliminate it.

Also self deception helps.

I often think about that. If I can thoroughly convince myself to believe a factual lie, would classic lie detector devices still work on me?

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#210

Post by mlrtime »

laurieg wrote: post #161
MrDrDr wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for posting - I found this video fascinating. Made me think about the law in the UK. Interestingly when arrested here we are told : “You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.” I’d be interested if anyone has experience of the UK system and if the same strategy…

I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I believe that the court may draw an inference from your silence. You are innocent and decided to remain silent only to have a perfect explanation that fits will all evidence known to the police weeks later. Why didn't you offer this earlier? There is an interesting TV show called 24 Hours in Police Custody[1] that follows people in the 24 hours after they are arrested. Naturally, the…

"Under advisement of my lawyer I respectfully decline to comment"
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