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How can you tell if someone is lying?

theatlantic.com

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Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#191

Post by theelous3 »

tarsinge wrote: post #118
foobiekr wrote: post #65

David Simon's book, Homicide, has an apropos section: """Terry McLarney once mused that the best way to unsettle a suspect would be to post in all three interrogation rooms a written list of those behavior patterns that indicate deception: Uncooperative. Too cooperative. Talks too much. Talks too little. Gets his story perfectly straight. Fucks his story up. Blinks too much, avoids eye contact. Doesn’t blink. Stares.…

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

I was a fairly disruptive kid in school. It was all boyswillbeboys stuf. Drinking and smoking with friends in abandoned sections of the school. The kind of stuff that seems really serious then, and inconsequential now.

I was brought in front of the board for expulsion after a litany of these types of things, and questioned about anything and everything for about two hours.

We took the case to the board of education and got copies of all of the board members notes, one of which enraged me then and now.

Scrawled in the margins of this members notes - random physiological and psychological phrases. "R.E.M?" for rapid eye movement, "no empathy", "slouching" etc.

Some armchair psychologist that thinks a kid in a high pressure situation, looking around at a board of nine people, is displaying sociopathic traits. That somehow my seating posture related to my character.

They expelled me, and it was ultimately overturned by the state. Still bothers me that people try to apply these dogshit cues to make real life major decisions.

"Vindictive" and "spiteful" were some other good ones. They'd convinced themselves I was doing it to get them or something. The truth is, I was a bored unstimulated kid and the only consideration they got, was how I could avoid them as much as possible. Absolutely zero interest in sticking it to them or making their lives more difficult.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#192

Post by arbitrage »

withinboredom wrote: post #22

I find it interesting that the TSA uses these behaviors but their own army’s interrogation school[1] tells their students not to use them. 1. FM 2-22.3 (section 9-6)

The TSA is security theater. They don't accomplish anything statistically significant.

The TSA is designed to make citizens of the United States feel better about their absurdly outsized risk of dying in a plane highjacking compared to literally every other civilised country on the planet.

Also, it's a huge cash-funnel for the plutocracy. Some people make an enormous amount of money selling this lie.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#193

Post by arbitrage »

eric4smith wrote: post #171

They open their mouths. No seriously, we all, mostly lie. Stop and think about it for a second. It could be just a simple thing to make an otherwise humdrum experience seem interesting. No harm no foul. But there it is, its a lie. Heck, even my dog lies. He overplays the negative to get sympathy... and more food and petting. Children lie. A lot. If you have a child, you know what I mean. So yea, just open your mouth.…

> even my dog lies. [...] Children lie. A lot. If you have a child, you know what I mean.

This really sold it to me right here.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#194

Post by arbitrage »

hutrdvnj wrote: post #188
jstummbillig wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, actually, according to the article, you can.

True, but these claims do not survive a scientific review.

I prefer to trust the science. Haven't seen a review about this specific article we are discussing yet.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#197

Post by klibertp »

graeme wrote: post #136
Godel_unicode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is, of course, totally irrelevant. Nobody cares about detecting those lies. Where's the evidence that big lies are in any way related to little lies?

Everyone tells little lies. But it someone, in a game for example, is so good at lying that you have no idea whether they’re telling the truth, that raises some questions. How can you trust your judgement on whether they’re truthful about bigger things?

> How can you trust your judgement on whether they’re truthful about bigger things?

You can't. You will believe what you want to believe, and good liars are great at finding out what you want. A well constructed lie rests on verifiable foundations - ie. they also know when not to lie to earn your trust - and comprises of almost exclusively truths. There is no way to defend yourself once you become the target and start listening.

The only winning move is not to play.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#198

Post by darkerside »

theelous3 wrote: post #191
tarsinge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countless times when I was a kid (and sometimes now) people thought I lied when I was innocent because of timidity (and not diagnosed but maybe on the spectrum), so yeah I was unsettled. Uncontrollable smiles were the worst ("that makes you laugh!"). I can’t blame neurotypical people for having heuristics, but I’m still afraid to be interrogated in something serious with my reactions analyzed.

I was a fairly disruptive kid in school. It was all boyswillbeboys stuf. Drinking and smoking with friends in abandoned sections of the school. The kind of stuff that seems really serious then, and inconsequential now. I was brought in front of the board for expulsion after a litany of these types of things, and questioned about anything and everything for about two hours. We took the case to the board of education a…

It is pretty shitty of them to write those things about a kid, but they were asked to make a judgement. They weren't using these observations to figure out if you were lying, and when you say they thought you were "out to get them", you're actually playing into the same armchair psychology they were.

I don't mean to give you grief because I've been in similar situations. But I hope you've learned from it that people will hold you responsible for behaviors they observe, and not for your intentions behind them (e.g. acting sullen because you are actually terrified inside).

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#199

Post by flycaliguy »

randycupertino wrote: post #131
doublejay1999 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm pleased to read this. I say that as someone who fell for the schtick, and he made a couple of sales out of me. He tells a decent story, and you feel like you've learn something after reading him. Scratch below the surface, and it turns out you haven't.

Ahh! Thank you for finally articulating what has always bugged me so much about his books. I am reading along thinking, "yeah, yeah, this makes sense" and then realizing later that it actually had no depth.

This is boiler plate Gladwell critique and has been part of his reputation for a long time. Ironically I think we are due for a contrarian shift back to him being brilliant.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#200

Post by roflc0ptic »

darkerside wrote: post #198
theelous3 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a fairly disruptive kid in school. It was all boyswillbeboys stuf. Drinking and smoking with friends in abandoned sections of the school. The kind of stuff that seems really serious then, and inconsequential now. I was brought in front of the board for expulsion after a litany of these types of things, and questioned about anything and everything for about two hours. We took the case to the board of education a…

It is pretty shitty of them to write those things about a kid, but they were asked to make a judgement. They weren't using these observations to figure out if you were lying, and when you say they thought you were "out to get them", you're actually playing into the same armchair psychology they were. I don't mean to give you grief because I've been in similar situations. But I hope you've learned from it that people…

If they wrote that he was being vindictive and spiteful, then I don’t think it quite qualifies as armchair psychology on GP’s part
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