Well, this system will at least make it harder for Amazon to deny knowing their drivers are peeing in bottles and pooping in bags. I also can't blame the drivers for not wanting those acts immortalized.
Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
51–60 of 191 posts
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#52I don’t think the systems are new or unique. We test drive a Kia last weekend and it was a feature they called “Driver Attention Warning.” I’ve seen this in other brands and cars as well. It looks like these systems use a variety of factors, steering patterns, frequency of vehicle lane assist being activated, cameras evaluating driver, biometrics (heart rate, body temperature etc.), and face monitoring/eye tracking (…
A monitoring system that helps you drive safer is different from a monitoring system that lets your employer judge your driving in real time.
If the vehicle had these features built in by the manufacturer, and it was employer policy that the driver does not disable those features, would you still consider that to be a case of employers "judging" driving behaviour in real time? Or would it perhaps be a perfectly reasonable policy?
This is a monitoring system that helps drivers drive safer. Why are you assuming that it's anything else?
You're assuming "judgement" in a way that isn't related to driver safety that is not supported by anything in the article or the features themselves.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#53Many blue collar workers are recorded all day long. In fact, it’d be tough finding a brick-and-mortar store that doesn’t have recording devices all over. Why is this news? Because it’s in a truck? Because it’s using AI?
Having a recording to examine when investigating an incident is different than an AI analyzes all video feeds in real time. The latter is more like each camera having a security team watching it 24/7. That may be common in some high risk environments (e.g. gambling or other large cash situations) but it’s certainly not the norm in vanilla retail. Truck drivers have historically been independent, in both corporate str…
Truck drivers have been dealing with electronic log books for years, anyone in the industry is used to it by now. Article is paywalled for me, but if this driver has a CDL and expects to be able to put it to use elsewhere without monitoring then they are in for some bad news.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
They sure have the size and the means to make an impact though.
Most places have statutory or industry-standard requirements on shift length limits and minimum rest periods for driving or anything else that carries fatigue-related safety risks. Is there any evidence that Amazon puts pressure on drivers to break these limits? I haven't heard of this being the case. But neither Amazon nor any other freight/delivery company can control its drivers' entire lives. No matter how much i…
Yes and no. Being tired on-shift is generally only an issue for drivers with 10-hour shifts and a long commute. A lot of DSPs only service 8-hour routes partly for this reason (the other reason being, obviously, lack of desire to pay overtime). Amazon Logistics used to look the other way when their drivers ran over the alloted time for their route because on-time delivery was deemed the more important variable for them. At some point I guess someone looked at how much they were spending on overtime and freaked out because that practice ended real quick.
I could see someone being tired if they were covering extra shifts, though, which may be a problem in some DSPs that have more routes than drivers. This happens when too many people call off and/or the DSP doesn't reserve enough drivers in the schedule that day to cover call-offs. On a long enough timeline that will definitely lead to exhaustion in drivers.
That said, that problem isn't solved by AI. That problem is solved by placing realistic weekly limits on how much drivers can work and penalizing DSPs that fail to budget enough drivers for call-offs and/or who fail to terminate drivers that habitually fail to show. This porkoscope is unnecessary.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#55Maybe it's just that I live in Australia, a country that has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community, given that our road fatality figures are now very low (in 2019 we had just under 1200 road deaths in a nation of 25.3M people - a low rate by world standards, particularly given how much we drive here). But I just don't see the cause for outrage over this - as long a…
I think the fear and the expectation (based on extensive previous experience) is that this technology, regardless of it's stated purpose, will be used to eke out a few extra seconds of efficiency from human drivers. Which will likely lead to stress and extra fatigue.
In my book, automating boring and repetitive tasks is good even if it leads to some job losses. Turning humans into robots by optimizing for every bit of near-term efficiency is not. My 2c.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#56Maybe it's just that I live in Australia, a country that has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community, given that our road fatality figures are now very low (in 2019 we had just under 1200 road deaths in a nation of 25.3M people - a low rate by world standards, particularly given how much we drive here). But I just don't see the cause for outrage over this - as long a…
The outrage is twofold:
1. It's another example of Amazon blaming drivers for what Amazon themselves could control.
2. It's another example of Amazon doing something grossly invasive and of dubious effectiveness when simply tracking the hours individual drivers work and limiting them accordingly would get the job done.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Buckling the seatbelt and sitting on it (implying that they're going to just buckle once and never bother with it) is easily detected via vehicle telemetry. They track every time you buckle and unbuckle the belt. Anyone who isn't buckling and unbuckling at the expected rate is flagged. Occasionally this results in the discovery of a faulty sensor which gets replaced, but nine times out of ten it results in the discov…
The car itself tells you when it expects you to buckle up by beeping annoyingly, so it sounds like beating this method just requires the little bit of discipline to unbuckle your “phantom buckle” every time you get out of the car.
Honestly that doesn't even really save you any time. Neither does leaving the side loading door open constantly (though I've witnessed drivers from other DSPs doing that, too). That's another thing that vehicle telemetry can already tell them, so this is still simply unnecessary.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#58Maybe it's just that I live in Australia, a country that has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community, given that our road fatality figures are now very low (in 2019 we had just under 1200 road deaths in a nation of 25.3M people - a low rate by world standards, particularly given how much we drive here). But I just don't see the cause for outrage over this - as long a…
I think the fear and the expectation (based on extensive previous experience) is that this technology, regardless of it's stated purpose, will be used to eke out a few extra seconds of efficiency from human drivers. Which will likely lead to stress and extra fatigue. In my book, automating boring and repetitive tasks is good even if it leads to some job losses. Turning humans into robots by optimizing for every bit o…
Yes. Notice that if the goal was really "safety" (as stated), the company does not need a "live feed" ever, a warning to the driver is enough. After all his safety is in his own best interest.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#59Many blue collar workers are recorded all day long. In fact, it’d be tough finding a brick-and-mortar store that doesn’t have recording devices all over. Why is this news? Because it’s in a truck? Because it’s using AI?
Having a recording to examine when investigating an incident is different than an AI analyzes all video feeds in real time. The latter is more like each camera having a security team watching it 24/7. That may be common in some high risk environments (e.g. gambling or other large cash situations) but it’s certainly not the norm in vanilla retail. Truck drivers have historically been independent, in both corporate str…
It's not the norm in driving either, but expect both to be on the upswing. AI to analyze retail feeds has been productized by a number of companies over the last few years. Right now they mainly do customer data collection, but monitoring employees is trivial.
Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
A monitoring system that helps you drive safer is different from a monitoring system that lets your employer judge your driving in real time.
If the vehicle had these features built in by the manufacturer, and it was employer policy that the driver does not disable those features, would you still consider that to be a case of employers "judging" driving behaviour in real time? Or would it perhaps be a perfectly reasonable policy? This is a monitoring system that helps drivers drive safer. Why are you assuming that it's anything else? You're assuming "judge…
I think we're coming at this from fundamentally different worldviews. Mine tells me employers always turn new technology against labor. I don't assume it will happen, I look to history and make an informed prediction.